2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The weight I saw was 3,525 lbs. I'll have to find where I saw that again but I think it was from GM.

I just looked at it again and I was reading the wrong column. Curb weight is 3524, just like you said. I am bummed again.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

How much did the GT go up? Would the standard equipment GT driveline take the forces of a GT500 engine? I'll answer the second: NO! Could you get away with putting Pep Boy tires on a new-Gen 662 hp Mustang? Maybe...Mopar did, with the Hellcat. So they'd build the GT500 to Hellcat standards? Or fully competitive with GM? GM is the answer, then? Add tires...and VOILA! $60 for Fun...if not $65K...



Well, if I was an internet gambler, I'd gladly take your money, Hobbsie, but Mama said I shouldn't...

Do you think a Base SS Gen-6 Camaro is going to sell for Vette money? REALLY? If so, you're NOT depressed with all this, you're suicidal!

If SS Camaros, well equipped (2SS?), sell for $40ish ($15K+ LESS than a Base Vette), what will a ZL1 sell for? $15K under a Z06, depending? EQUALLY FEATURED! Maybe $20 less...

The Mustang GT increased less than $2k.

Never said the GT drive train would handle the GT500 engine. It's called a reference point. If the GT increased less than $2k, what makes you think the GT500 would increase $15k?

Never said the SS would be in Corvette territory.


Also, the GT500 is on the same tires as the ZL1 and 1LE. Do you still consider those Pep Boy Tires?

[LOWDOWN]

You mean that 1LE that came out AFTER the BOSS. Thats a tip of the cap to GM, they saw an opportunity to take it to Ford and they did. They did it with a faster car for less money.

...and, if you notice the one year lapse between Gen-6 Mustang and Gen-6 Camaro, who has the benefit of seeing whose playbook first?

you brought up how YOU didn't think Ford/SVT could build a mustang to compete with (I am assuming you meant a LT4 derived ZL1 that also does not exist yet), without it entering Z06 price territory....which is why I brought up the hypothetical what if they did target the Z06(which both agreed on would put Mustang at a super high price point) Now I think we both can agree that a Z06 would destroy a 6th Gen ZL1 in just about every measurable performance stat. Wouldn't a mustang built to chase down the Z06 then in theory (bc we are in hypothetical what if world) also have to be superior to the ZL1 in order to come close to the Z06.

You're paraphrasing. I believe what I said was, with a unique ultra-performance engine and a full complement of the BEST pieces a Mustang can carry, the MUSTANG would be $70-ish and, therefore by many out there, would THEN get drawn UP to the Z06...which would be very unfair for Mustang...and, like most of the last few pages to me, an unnecessary sidetrack for the Vette. (this IS a Hellcat thread, right?!)...

Anything else, or can I start my weekend, now? There's a party in the HouZe that I'm missing...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Mustang GT increased less than $2k.

Never said the GT drive train would handle the GT500 engine. It's called a reference point. If the GT increased less than $2k, what makes you think the GT500 would increase $15k?

You REALLY are trolling, now, aren't you?!

What WAS the GT500's Base? $57,000! Add $2K for the "change". Add MORE for GT-incapable upgrades. Over $60K? You bet your bippy, bhobbs. R-rubber - C-C brakes - super-suspension and you're at $70 in a FLASH! Or beyond...well-beyond, most would say. Z06 MONEY!

Also, the GT500 is on the same tires as the ZL1 and 1LE. Do you still consider those Pep Boy Tires?

With 5.82 lb/hp, YES! Just like the cheap-chit 275s on the Hellcat...

How to meet a price point target? CHEAP-OUT on some truly important stuff...like tires, which connect ALL that power to the ground. Or don't...in which case, complain to your insurance man, NOT me...

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

You mean that 1LE that came out AFTER the BOSS. Thats a tip of the cap to GM, they saw an opportunity to take it to Ford and they did. They did it with a faster car for less money.

...and, if you notice the one year lapse between Gen-6 Mustang and Gen-6 Camaro, who has the benefit of seeing whose playbook first?

you brought up how YOU didn't think Ford/SVT could build a mustang to compete with (I am assuming you meant a LT4 derived ZL1 that also does not exist yet), without it entering Z06 price territory....which is why I brought up the hypothetical what if they did target the Z06(which both agreed on would put Mustang at a super high price point) Now I think we both can agree that a Z06 would destroy a 6th Gen ZL1 in just about every measurable performance stat. Wouldn't a mustang built to chase down the Z06 then in theory (bc we are in hypothetical what if world) also have to be superior to the ZL1 in order to come close to the Z06.

You're paraphrasing. I believe what I said was, with a unique ultra-performance engine and a full complement of the BEST pieces a Mustang can carry, the MUSTANG would be $70-ish and, therefore by many out there, would THEN get drawn UP to the Z06...which would be very unfair for Mustang...and, like most of the last few pages to me, an unnecessary sidetrack for the Vette. (this IS a Hellcat thread, right?!)...

Anything else, or can I start my weekend, now? There's a party in the HouZe that I'm missing...

Oh, sweet Jesus.

I only mentioned the 1LE because it rides on similar tires as the GT500, which you referred to as Pep Boy tires.

You can't even keep your argument straight. Let's agree to disagree and enjoy the weekend.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

You mean that 1LE that came out AFTER the BOSS. Thats a tip of the cap to GM, they saw an opportunity to take it to Ford and they did. They did it with a faster car for less money.

...and, if you notice the one year lapse between Gen-6 Mustang and Gen-6 Camaro, who has the benefit of seeing whose playbook first?

you brought up how YOU didn't think Ford/SVT could build a mustang to compete with (I am assuming you meant a LT4 derived ZL1 that also does not exist yet), without it entering Z06 price territory....which is why I brought up the hypothetical what if they did target the Z06(which both agreed on would put Mustang at a super high price point) Now I think we both can agree that a Z06 would destroy a 6th Gen ZL1 in just about every measurable performance stat. Wouldn't a mustang built to chase down the Z06 then in theory (bc we are in hypothetical what if world) also have to be superior to the ZL1 in order to come close to the Z06.

You're paraphrasing. I believe what I said was, with a unique ultra-performance engine and a full complement of the BEST pieces a Mustang can carry, the MUSTANG would be $70-ish and, therefore by many out there, would THEN get drawn UP to the Z06...which would be very unfair for Mustang...and, like most of the last few pages to me, an unnecessary sidetrack for the Vette. (this IS a Hellcat thread, right?!)...

Anything else, or can I start my weekend, now? There's a party in the HouZe that I'm missing...

Nope were on the same page thanks for making the last hour at work go by quicker! Cheers dude

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Oh, sweet Jesus.

I only mentioned the 1LE because it rides on similar tires as the GT500, which you referred to as Pep Boy tires.

...and the BOSS-beating 1LE did NOT have 662 hp, did it? Or a 5.82 p2w, did it?

The 1LE sold for less than $40K-Base. Shouldn't you expect better tires with 662-5.82-$60 FREAKIN GRAND?!

You can't even keep your argument straight.

You're the ONE arguing MY points. And as much as I shouldn't, I'm REALLY trying to accommodate you...and you're sure as Hell not making that easy? Would you rather be IGNORED?

THAT would be easy...

Do something you like, this weekend...and get rid of the scowl you've worn ever since the Hellcat was announced. It's NOT 'all that and a bag of chips"...it's a taxi cab with a BIG engine. And it's NOT made by GM, nor would GM make something exactly like that. It used a "tried and proven" Ford-Shelby recipe. Just like the ol' chili farmer did with Dodge in the '80s, only this time they don't have to pay him any money. That's all...

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

You're ONLY talking 1/4-mile, right? Then why buy the Z07 option?

$79K-Base. Same TORQUE as the 'Cat. 1000 lighter. 8-speed Automatic...which already takes a Base $50-something Vette into the 11s. With 190 fewer galloping horses.

Right?

Now...what will a 750 pony BLOWN S550 weigh? MORE than the GT500 did. Unless you throw aluminum and c/f at it. THEN what's the price? And, with available transmissions, what will this hypothetical "750+ hp" engine deliver for TORQUE? 650. Is Ford gonna yank the tranny from a Power Stroke diesel to back it up? And what does THAT tranny weigh?

"Dilemmas"...

The STOCK 6R80 transmission in my 5.0 will handle 800 hp. Do some research. Ford could have put it in the GT500 but choose (mistake) not to.

[2011shelby]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

...and the BOSS-beating 1LE did NOT have 662 hp, did it? Or a 5.82 p2w, did it?

The 1LE sold for less than $40K-Base. Shouldn't you expect better tires with 662-5.82-$60 FREAKIN GRAND?!



...

The Boss never had 662 HP.

Also show me a link where the 1LE beat the GT500 which does have 662 hp.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

The STOCK 6R80 transmission in my 5.0 will handle 800 hp. Do some research. Ford could have put it in the GT500 but choose (mistake) not to.

What's its MAX TORQUE rating, OEM? THAT'S where the potential problems lie...

And I NEVER heard any Dearborn dandies accuse Ford of that "mistake"...until the Hellcat arrived. Do your own research, Reaper, and stop trolling...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by 2011shelby

The Boss never had 662 HP.

Also show me a link where the 1LE beat the GT500 which does have 662 hp.

Go back to rehab...do NOT pass GO...do NOT collect any money...

...ALL of the last three pages...

[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

It EXCEEDED the GT500 output, when engineering finalization on THAT program was signed off. 580 to 540, remember? And THEN Camaro spent their development dollars on something that SHOCKED the world, positively: something called Z/28. Wow, you really do believe your own bullstuff! How does 580hp exceed 662hp, or 12 sec runs exceed 11 sec runs? They split road course wins...actually, GT500 won more. So tell me, how the ZL1 exceeds the GT500 in performance.

Since then, Gen-6 is being FULLY attended to.

Chrysler, meanwhile, has NO NEW CHASSIS in sight, and they're stuck with a 2-Ton+ Tony, and plunging car sales, generally. How to generate headlines...and traffic? 707HP! Which will ultimately move Charger-Challenger sales enough to only wither SLIGHTLY when the new-Gen Mustang and Camaro come to market, instead of fully decimating Sergio's tanks.

Ford? Ford read the not-too-difficult-to-read-tea-leaves, saw a warmed-over LSA producing a very close weight-to-power rating imminent in the Camaro (their most-feared and sales-leading competitor), spent some dough on a hopped-up bullet, hobbled with 6-Speed-only and Pep Boys tires (after all, when you spend all the shekels under the HOOD, there's not much left to go elsewhere for "under-$60K", the ZL1 price), and, unknowingly created an easily-duplicated playbook for DODGE!Sounds like penis envy on your part. Why hate Ford for putting a worthy engine in a pony car? Hate GM for not doing it.

As to Camaro playing "second fiddle" to Corvette, TWO points:

1) Can you buy, now, a COPO Corvette?

2) Do you think Chrysler did the Viper any GOOD when they equip their taxi cab with MORE straight line capability, for HALF the price, than their "true" halo?

Camaro has ALWAYS, and will ALWAYS, play second fiddle to the Corvette....otherwise the Camaro would be the "halo" car and not the Corvette. But you should be used to the Camaro playing second fiddle, since the Mustang has always led the way. I love my 1999 Z28, but I am not blind to the fact that its not as iconic as the Mustang..never will be. Dont forget the disappearing act the Camaro pulled from 2003-2009. Like I have said before, Mustang does not need the Camaro to survive, but the Camaro does need the Mustang. Try arguing that.

[LOWDOWN]

It EXCEEDED the GT500 output, when engineering finalization on THAT program was signed off. 580 to 540, remember? And THEN Camaro spent their development dollars on something that SHOCKED the world, positively: something called Z/28.

Wow, you really do believe your own bullstuff! How does 580hp exceed 662hp, or 12 sec runs exceed 11 sec runs? So tell me, how the ZL1 exceeds the GT500 in performance.

The "engineering finalization" that I accurately mention was "finalized" in 2010. And WHAT was the GT500's hp in MY 10 and 11? 540. And the ZL1 was SAE'd @ WHAT? 580.

What magazine times did 10-11 GT500s run? What times did '12 ZL1s run?

Ford saved their BEST, secretly, and announced 662 HP! (for '13) on the same day as the ZL1 was revealed as a '12 MY entry, back in winter '11. By then, Team Camaro was onto the Z/28 program...which, in fact, STUNNED people with ITS intended capabilities. No Bullsh!t, but FACT!

As an aside, how would you like to have paid steep $40s for a 540 hp '10 or '11 GT500, and then have Ford OBSOLETE your car before its first oil change?! Nice!

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

Camaro has ALWAYS, and will ALWAYS, play second fiddle to the Corvette...

GM could have done what Mopar just did...make a 1/2-price taxi cab that outruns your "halo ultra-performance sports car". But they haven't and didn't and won't. THAT means looking after ALL your customers, not just a few who want taxi cabs...or who invested in instantly-obsolete SHELBYS!

I LOVE people who post GM cars in their "Drives" section and then troll this site for arguments...like it's protection from being identified for what they are...

You may actually drive 1 quick Z28...but that car is a LOT swifter than its owner...

[2011shelby]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

What's its MAX TORQUE rating, OEM? THAT'S where the potential problems lie...

...

FYI, the 80 in 6R80 means it's rated for 800 ft. torque.

Just like the 6060 in the Camaro's are rated for 600 torque.