MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM?

[Speedy1975]

If they file bankruptcy I won't buy a Camaro.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

If they file bankruptcy I won't buy a Camaro.

If they file bankruptcy, you won't be buying anything!

[societyhigh]

If GM goes under, and i have a 2010 camaro and they don't make them anymore.. think of what it'll be worth in a few years.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Foster26

Remember: Chapter 11 Bankruptcy does NOT mean they will cease to exists.

Let's assume they go Chapter 11 - what will be the (increase/decrease) percentage in sales? Give me a percentage number based on the current market conditions and on how you believe the public will react to this news.

[babyjulie83]

Most definately yes!

[350 HRSS]

Originally Posted by Bentley78

and the Camaro isnt something anyone needs.

Mark my words, GM is WAY to late to the game with this car, it has already failed. I'll be surprised if they start producing them in 09 at all.

First off..."I need".

And I have faith the Camaro will start production as planned....I certainly am not giving up hope...and I doubt 99% of the others on this forum are either...

[Raiz]

From a bankrupt company, yes I'd probably still buy the car. You still have a pretty good chance that the company will rebound after it sheds its pension/union obligations.

From a company that has ceased to exist, no, I probably wouldn't. If I couldn't get a new Camaro, I'd buy an old one. I've wanted a '68 since I was but a wee little boy, but changed my mind when I saw the 2010.

[carfansince73]

If they fill Ch 11 to reorganize so they can eventually emerge as a stronger company similar to what the airlines have done, then yes. If they fill for bankrupcty and liquidate like Daewoo only to disappear completely, then no.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Bentley78

Enthusiest only = Fail, and those are the only people that would buy a car from a failing company. The Camaro is a nice car/expenditure not necessity no doubt, but why would you support a business that is in the dump. All of you that think the Camaro would be worth more.....you couldnt be more wrong, you wouldnt be able to give the car away. In times like this the people of the country are only buying things they need from places like Walmart and the Camaro isnt something anyone needs.

Mark my words, GM is WAY to late to the game with this car, it has already failed. I'll be surprised if they start producing them in 09 at all.

Have fun buying from toyota then.
A word of advice: When they say they'll give you a rebate, it really means that they're going to tack on an additional $7,000 to the MSRP.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Have fun buying from toyota then.
A word of advice: When they say they'll give you a rebate, it really means that they're going to tack on an additional $7,000 to the MSRP.

I don't see how this statement is accurate. With places like KBB.com and Edmunds.com an educated buyer can get quite the deal. These sites show retail as well as invoice and what the avg sale price is as well. Using those facts you can net a really good deal these days.

[edog]

Yes, and even with bankruptcy the would have a chance to restructure their company. The Camaro needs to launch. As many have stated they are to far along to stop the build. New plant, supplies already purchased, etc...

They might not build as many as initially communicated, but they will most definitely build all preorders and then the as many as their supplies will allow.

[Jamestwilliams]

Originally Posted by Bentley78

Enthusiest only = Fail, and those are the only people that would buy a car from a failing company. The Camaro is a nice car/expenditure not necessity no doubt, but why would you support a business that is in the dump. All of you that think the Camaro would be worth more.....you couldnt be more wrong, you wouldnt be able to give the car away. In times like this the people of the country are only buying things they need from places like Walmart and the Camaro isnt something anyone needs.

Mark my words, GM is WAY to late to the game with this car, it has already failed. I'll be surprised if they start producing them in 09 at all.

Retarded quote of the year, someone who does not know what chapter 11 actually means. Bankruptcy does not mean that GM will cease to exist.

About no parts, how the hell do you think people get parts for Studebakers, Chords, Yellow Cabs etc. etc. People need to really think things through before they speak.

[bigralph]

Things like this piss me off!!!

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...2_FORTUNE5.htm

Lending Crackdown Creates New Disadvantage For US Auto Makers
November 13, 2008: 02:24 PM EST

DETROIT -(Dow Jones)- Getting a lease deal on a Chevrolet or Buick is all but impossible these days. And car buyers can forget about getting free financing on a Ford.

But anyone in the market for a Honda, Toyota or Nissan is getting wooed with unprecedented deals, from no-interest loans to cheap leases on popular models like the Honda Civic.

Detroit's Big Three auto makers, strapped for cash and unable to extend generous deals touted by many of their foreign-based rivals, face a growing competitive disadvantage. It's the latest setback in Detroit's fight to hang on to its fast-shrinking corner of the U.S auto market.

"These import companies are hitting the domestics where it hurts most and offering financing where the others can't," said Jessica Caldwell, industry analyst at Edmunds.com. "If they, the domestics, lose people to Toyota, Honda and Nissan, and these customers realize, 'Hey, these are good cars,' they may be lost forever."

Domestic auto makers had hoped to at least maintain their share of the market in the face of a widespread industry slump. Success on that front would have put the companies in a better position to recover when the market rebounded.

Instead, domestic companies' market share through October fell 4 percentage points to 47% compared to a year ago, a massive drop by auto industry standards, where every tenth-of-a-point earned is cause to brag. Asian brands, meanwhile, accounted for 45% of U.S. auto sales, up from 42% a year ago.

General Motors Corp. (GM), especially, has emphasized hanging onto to market share as a key goal in the face of sinking sales. A well-received employee- pricing-for-all sale in September pushed GM's share to 27%, the highest of 2008. But in October, after the sale ended, GM's share sank to 20%, just one percentage point above Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) on the home turf GM has long dominated.

While economic turmoil has pushed the entire U.S. market to lows unseen in decades, U.S. auto makers are bearing the brunt of the loss, a trend that will likely accelerate as credit and cash flow troubles impede their ability to woo jittery consumers.

Consumers rattled by the crashing housing market and meltdown on Wall Street are putting off big-ticket purchases such as new vehicles. Those who are willing to buy are having a tough time securing credit as lenders clamp down on loans, requiring high credit scores and big down payments.

GM has been hit especially hard because its finance arm, GMAC Financial Services, has clamped down on auto loans in the face of massive losses. Unlike Ford Motor Co.'s (F) Ford Motor Credit, GM doesn't have a controlling stake in GMAC, which is also reeling from losses in its mortgage lending business. The auto maker sold 51% of the lender to Cerberus Capital Management LP in 2006.

Toyota, Honda Motor Co. (HMC) and Nissan Motor Co. (NSANY), are hurting from the same factors, but those auto makers and their finance arms have much stronger balance sheets to help them weather the downturn.

New Yorker Meredith Rackoff, who works for a Manhattan bank, epitomizes Detroit's dilemma.

For three years, she has leased a compact Chevrolet Cobalt, never missing a monthly payment. The lease runs out in December and Rackoff, happy with the car and looking to stick with a domestic model, asked GMAC if she could extend the lease six months to keep the Cobalt.

Instead, she says, she was told she could get no more than a month extension - unless she had already purchased a new GM vehicle - and that her rate would go up by $25 a month.

"They told me policy is policy and there are no exceptions," said Rackoff, who is now considering buying a car from another auto maker. "All they would have to do is take my check and cash it instead of just having my car sitting on a lot somewhere.

"To me, it just defied logic."

In rolling out financing and discount deals, the Japanese auto makers are undercutting a key tool domestic manufacturers have used to compete.

The shift comes after years of work by the Detroit auto makers to level the playing field on vehicle quality and labor costs. Domestic companies have made major strides - from improved quality rankings by publications such as Consumer Reports to a landmark cost-cutting labor deal with the United Auto Workers.

Now, hamstrung by their inability to offer cheap loans, they face a new hurdle.

"A lot of people have been turned off by what the domestics are offering, with no leasing and requiring high credit scores," Edmunds' Caldwell said. "On the other hand you have Toyota out there with national commercials saying, 'Financing is not a problem. We will work with you.' "

-By Sharon Terlep, Dow Jones Newswires; 248-204-5532; sharon.terlep@ dowjones.com.

Click here to go to Dow Jones NewsPlus, a web front page of today's most important business and market news, analysis and commentary: http:// http://www.djnewsplus.com/al?rnd=1bP...tNaEuUZQ%3D%3D. You can use this link on the day this article is published and the following day.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I don't see how this statement is accurate. With places like KBB.com and Edmunds.com an educated buyer can get quite the deal. These sites show retail as well as invoice and what the avg sale price is as well. Using those facts you can net a really good deal these days.

I speak from experience. My mom dragged my father and I to a toyota dealership to look at a corolla (which SHE wanted, my father and I personally thought it was a load of crap). When we sat down to go over payment options, they told us that there was some rebate available. When they figured out how much we would be paying, a $14,000 corolla went to $21,000 with a ton of random fees and surcharges.

Needless to say, we walked out of there and back into our Chevy dealership and bought the Malibu.