2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I agree completely, and what is wrong with marketing that type of car? Believe it or not, there are tons of people that want cars like that including me. It's okay that it isn't your cup of tea, but it doesn't make it a bad car.

It doesn't make it a GREAT car either. Ford's "been there, done that". Dodge is simply following a tried-and-proven route...in the hopes of selling LESS THAN HALF AS MANY Hellcats, per year, as Ford sold GT500s with 662 hp and a 5.82 w2p.

So tell me, if you can draw yourself away from an apparent mid-life crisis that has you hell-bent (no pun) on boiling hides for your neighbors, why didn't you buy the Brand-enhanced Shelby GT500? Your pocket book would have eventually thanked you...or did your crisis just hit, now, and Ford is out of 500s?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DDoug

LOWDOWN ... um ... translation pleeze??

I think yoo been tryin' to convince in here too long, lol.

Translate what, to what?

[macwest]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

This is the first time I've heard the red key voids the warranty. I doubt it's true.

red key does NOT void any warranty.

[BobDigi5060]

Originally Posted by Whos_Drivin

If you want to focus on 1/4 times I'd recommend spending more time on the Dodge/Ford site.

If I want to focus on horsepower I'll go to the V8 section of this board.

Horsepower and torque have always been a selling point and the big three use this for both cars and trucks. For me, this discussion is about the Hellcat.

[LOWDOWN]

Bob, you can build 'em with 1,000 hp and 1,000 lb-ft of torque and get headlines...until you realize the thing weighs 6,000 lb. and you have a 6.0 w2p ratio. And it STILL only runs 11s when factory-fitted with $49.95 Pep Boys tires...

All the money, on this now-8-year-old chassis was spent under the hood...to accomplish what Ford did several years ago with an equally old chassis...at an equal price. the ONLY "new thing" FCA has brought to the table is an electronically launch-controlled well-integrated Automatic trans. that, for the most part, the internet racers don't realize is THE hot set-up. Maybe...if you can believe the onboard timers at risk-avoidance of non-existent time slips from race tracks the cars, and the media, were at. With concrete launch pads and VHT.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by macwest

red key does NOT void any warranty.

Quoting the wrong guy. I didn't say that.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

It doesn't make it a GREAT car either. Ford's "been there, done that". Dodge is simply following a tried-and-proven route...in the hopes of selling LESS THAN HALF AS MANY Hellcats, per year, as Ford sold GT500s with 662 hp and a 5.82 w2p.

So tell me, if you can draw yourself away from an apparent mid-life crisis that has you hell-bent (no pun) on boiling hides for your neighbors, why didn't you buy the Brand-enhanced Shelby GT500? Your pocket book would have eventually thanked you...or did your crisis just hit, now, and Ford is out of 500s?

I've had a lot of hide boiling cars over the years including a GT500. I tried to get a 2013 and had no success. I also had a hard time trying to get a ZL1. Well finally I was able to find a ZL1. So I pulled the trigger. I believe my mid-life crisis started when I was little boy because I've always liked hi powered noisy vehicles that could strike the fear of God into you and others alike. Most of the time it was the vehicles that didn't handle that we'll that induced the most fear. Sorry, I'm sure you don't understand, and I have no problem with that. I know the kind of car I like , and I have no doubt that Dodge will have no problem selling every Hellcat they produce.

[DDoug]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Translate what, to what?

#1636, no idea what you're tryin' to say.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DDoug

#1636, no idea what you're tryin' to say. [mild edit added]

I'm quoting the trolls with off-Brand loyalties...or their attempts to incite tearful retorts from the usual inhabitants of this august (it is August, isn't it?) site. I thought I'd cut to the chase and put them ALL in one post so as to save bandwidth by negating several pages of "multi-quote" repetition.

Sorry if I confused or misled anyone...and if I did, I may have a future in Mopar Product Promotion...* +

* Some conditions apply...

+ Your results WILL vary...

[Front Runner]

What's the point of this thread now?

Just wondering.........

[BobDigi5060]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Bob, you can build 'em with 1,000 hp and 1,000 lb-ft of torque and get headlines...until you realize the thing weighs 6,000 lb. and you have a 6.0 w2p ratio. And it STILL only runs 11s when factory-fitted with $49.95 Pep Boys tires...

All the money, on this now-8-year-old chassis was spent under the hood...to accomplish what Ford did several years ago with an equally old chassis...at an equal price. the ONLY "new thing" FCA has brought to the table is a electronically launch-controlled well-integrated Automatic trans. that, for the most part, the internet racers don't realize is THE hot set-up. Maybe...if you can believe the onboard timers at risk-avoidance of time slips from race tracks the cars, and the media, were at. With concrete launch pads and VHT.

It weighs 200 pounds more than the ZL1 coupe. These two are closer in weight than the GT and Camaro are.

[LOWDOWN]

Bob...again...the headlines blare: 707 hp!! Runs Low 11s!!! Runs 10s on DRs!!!!

Right?

But the thing weighs 4400 freakin' lb with Automatic...the trans REQUIRED to run those no-time-slip-shown times.

This thread is about the HELLCAT. Let's talk about the HELLCAT. And I'll share my thoughts on the HELLCAT, too. There's some smoke-n-mirrors at play, here, while the 'net racers seem to think EVERY HELLCAT will run low 11s on Pep boys OE tires, and 10s with just DRs.

I'm from Missouri. SHOW ME THE SLIPS. Better yet, let's hear ANY times run for the 6-Speed. ANY...even from that concrete-padded VHT-prepped track in Portland, that no one bothered to collect time slips from, or show pictures of the finish line message board...

[crickets from Mopar AND the media]

Doesn't matter what the ZL1 weighs...or runs...or doesn't run.

HELLCATS.

Here, kitty-kitty...

[Todd in Vancouver]

Originally Posted by BobDigi5060

This, I've lurked for years, love it here, but who races American Iron or CMC? Who knows what that is?

The 1LE is a great car for the money, Z/28 is special too, but a lot of you don't get it. I don't drive a Challenger, but I get it.... The car is everything the Camaro and Mustang aren't. A better daily driver and overall more practical car. Room for four and a better ride. I'm certain across the board mpg is competitive. The 11' GT and 1LE won their battles, but this has always been true.

Since Dodge brought the car back it's been universally recognized as the most authentic classic car you can by. Overtime that sinks in and the Dodge is selling more than ever.

Uhm, No. So if I understand you correctly the Challenger with it's suspension will ride better than a ZL1 with Magride, borrowed from Caddy, will be what my Camaro is not. I've driven SRT8's and while I agree they have a decent ride I certainly didn't find it any roomier or more practical in any way, at all, ever.

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Through the "cones", or through the "lights"?

Where is NHRA attendance, these days, in relation to other aspects of motorsports? In a STEEP decline. As is drag strip usage. How many have closed in the last 15-20 years?

Good Guys used to have nostalgia drags at many events. Now they have a couple. But they have AUTO-X @ EVERY EVENT!

Why?

This is NOT 1970, anymore.

Ever heard of PRO TOUR? THE fastest-growing segment of hot rodding?

Drag racing is sooooo '70s...

Yes I've heard of Pro-Tour and I'm building one right now in my garage. I've been involved in the car game for decades and I've learned one thing through that time. All things are cyclical, drag racing, Nascar, 4x4's, etc. I can tell you our local drag strip just dropped some big coin rebuilding the strip and track upgrades. They still pack them in and do very well. Is drag racing front and centre right now, Nope, but it will be again once everyone gets done with road/track races, yes it will, for sure.

Originally Posted by BobDigi5060

I'll argue that the Hellcat is more car than the ZL1. More money, more motor, more power, more comfort, more room, and ultimately of greater prestige. A Z/28 is more prestigious than the ZL1. You can trade the handling for driveability and four seats, but remember that the big Dodge came within a foot on a braking test of the ZL1.

Shelby didn't build a track queen for 13', neither did Chevy, but the GT500 has outrun the ZL1 in most cases. Does that make the Shelby a better driver than the ZL1? Depends on who ya ask, right?

Right. The big three, each car is an acquired taste. The Hellcat is undeniably, a car for the road

Sorry not buying it at all. The ZL1 when tested against the GT500 won 10 out of 10 times in cross comparisons and while the brute power of the GT500 managed to beat it for 1 lap it just doesn't have the package to hang with it for more than one lap let alone a Z/28. AND, let's not forget the GT500 comes factory with a CAI and the boost cranked up considerably higher than the ZL1. What do you think happens when the ZL pulley change is done to match boost and a CAI is added? Let's just call it a drivers race.

I'm not a brand fanboy and started with my first car being a BB Challenger and I've been in lots of new Mustangs. I tried them all before I bought mine and I can say with all honesty the ZL1 is just a far superior package. Will the Hellcat pull it in a drag race, I would hope so with 707hp but I'm not jumping ship for the sake of a few bucks in pulley swap and such to run with one. And, until I see track comparison times I'll await to see if it can hang with the big boys at the track.

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Come on, now. Why was the original Z/28 such a vaunted car? Blindingly quick acceleration? No. Boss 302? No. Any Firebird Formula or Trans Am? No. Corvettes? Not really.

In 1979, 35 years ago, firebird outsold Camaro by a w-I-d-e margin. Over 100,000 TRANS AM's were sold. "Radial Tuned Suspension". WS6. NOT recent events, folks.

Original-era muscle cars were sold, largely, with taxi-cab trim and BIG mutha engines...and DRUM brakes...and OPTIONAL "handling packages" with anti-sway rear stabilizer bars. "Do those make it quicker in the 1/4-mile? No? Then I can't afford that crap..."

Don Yenko is credited with creating COPO 9737 - Sports conversion Package (Z/28 suspension/wheels/tires included), which EVERY YENKO Camaro produced in '69 had available. To give the car some semblance of "balance". And THAT was 45 years ago...

FE2, F41, Competition Handling Package (mandatory on all CJ Mustangs, along with Disc Brakes)... MAGIC components for folks who NEEDED some road-worthy balance in their lives...just to perhaps SAVE their lives...

"Handling" ain't some new-fangled camaro5-created "myth". It's been there all along, for the KNOWING...and the WISE.

I think you mistake my post as meaning that new pony cars don't need any balance or handling. They do, it just doesn't need to be the main focus and priority. That's what 1LE and BOSS type cars are for, to fill that type of market. Even the great majority of those special cars will never touch a road course. I myself would rather have a good handling car with fantastic acceleration than a superior handling car with just good acceleration. I promise, that in the real world I am of the majority even if most people don't consciously know it. I don't even know ANYONE personally who have driven their cars to their handling limit in ANY type of environment and I know a lot of Vette owners. However, every single person that I know enjoys and frequently goes WOT in some sort of way. Yes, building cars that can go x time around a road course gets that brand good recognition from the Euro trash magazine writers, who in turn tell the reader it's a great car, who in turn automatically believes it's a great car and buys it. The fact of the matter is the VAST majority of those cars never experience their handling limit. They do quite often get driven hard in a straight line.