2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

...which makes me think (amazing, eh?):

"Camaro SS gets stomped by GT and SRT"

"ZL1 SUX against 500 and Hellfire 'n Brimstone"

"Z/28 is GROSSLY overpriced"

"Who'd seriously consider a V6 in these cars?"

Right, Ford Fans, and Mopar Muthas?

Who sells more cars, in greater numbers, at "ridiculous" prices: Challenger, Mustang, or Camaro???

[crickets]

So who gets the "win" light each and every Quarter (mile?) on the ONLY "scoreboard" that counts?? The SALES Board.

Yup...the "tortoise"... CAMARO.

Ain't America a GREAT country?

Last time I looked Honda sells a whole lot vehicles but it doesn't mean I'd want to be driving them.

If your sole concern is that you can only drive the sales leader may I suggest one of the following: Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Ford Fusion, Honda Civic, or the Hyundai Elantra. This way you can continue to brag about your status as the sales leader all the while looking like everyone else on the road.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by newmoon

If your sole concern is that you can only drive the sales leader may I suggest one of the following: Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Ford Fusion, Honda Civic, or the Hyundai Elantra. This way you can continue to brag about your status as the sales leader all the while looking like everyone else on the road.

Well, now that you've broadened the sales scale, get your facts straight...

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/10/for...t-selling.html

Lame. I must have missed an eclipse...

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

Uhm, No. So if I understand you correctly the Challenger with it's suspension will ride better than a ZL1 with Magride, borrowed from Caddy, will be what my Camaro is not. I've driven SRT8's and while I agree they have a decent ride I certainly didn't find it any roomier or more practical in any way, at all, ever.

Sorry not buying it at all. The ZL1 when tested against the GT500 won 10 out of 10 times in cross comparisons and while the brute power of the GT500 managed to beat it for 1 lap it just doesn't have the package to hang with it for more than one lap let alone a Z/28. AND, let's not forget the GT500 comes factory with a CAI and the boost cranked up considerably higher than the ZL1. What do you think happens when the ZL pulley change is done to match boost and a CAI is added? Let's just call it a drivers race.

I'm not a brand fanboy and started with my first car being a BB Challenger and I've been in lots of new Mustangs. I tried them all before I bought mine and I can say with all honesty the ZL1 is just a far superior package. Will the Hellcat pull it in a drag race, I would hope so with 707hp but I'm not jumping ship for the sake of a few bucks in pulley swap and such to run with one. And, until I see track comparison times I'll await to see if it can hang with the big boys at the track.

That's your opinion. I've owned (not just driven) the ZL1, SS, & SRT8 Challenger, and have put thousands of miles on each during normal daily driving, road trips, and track driving. IMO the Challanger it is more roomy, rides better, and more practical because of the additional space.

The ZL1 handles better on the track. The Challenger was just as fun on the track but the ZL1 is more planted.

Havent owned a Hellcat so I can't comment but as stated, I've owned the ZL1, SS, & SRT8 Challenger.

Again, I'm just stating my opinion. I dont give a rats ass about all of the hype, magazine reviews, etc. about each model.

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

Yes, building cars that can go x time around a road course gets that brand good recognition from the Euro trash magazine writers, who in turn tell the reader it's a great car, who in turn automatically believes it's a great car and buys it. The fact of the matter is the VAST majority of those cars never experience their handling limit.

I couldnt agree with you more.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

I'll strap you into the driver's seat of a ZL1, a car capable of low-mid 12s, and sent you off to Grandma's house, a 100 miles up the Pacific Coast Highway. Then, switch to a hellacious Hellcat, a car at least with the "potential" to run in the 11s...gee, maybe a whole second quicker if you're on a concrete pad with VHT stickin' like molasses to your Pep Boys tires, but with much less capability to handle the constantly-turning, elevation-changing vistas of said Highway. With the possible exception of making a very risky pass on Ma 'n Pa Kettle's motorhome-rolling palace, with a tick or two's extra time to spare, people would generally pick the magic ride of the MRC-equipped ZL1 over the relatively lumbering gait of the Clysdale...

I have to completely agree with you here. I do love the ride and feel of my ZL1 much better than my buddies 392 challenger. I also agree with most of what you are saying in general about the Challenger. I do however believe in the times they say it will run , and I love that Dodge has finally stepped up with some real power. Maybe I am hung up on the number alone, but I hope to some day to get a chance to run one. Will I give up my ZL1 for one? I don't thinks so.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

I think you mistake my post as meaning that new pony cars don't need any balance or handling. They do, it just doesn't need to be the main focus and priority. That's what 1LE and BOSS type cars are for, to fill that type of market. Even the great majority of those special cars will never touch a road course. I myself would rather have a good handling car with fantastic acceleration than a superior handling car with just good acceleration. I promise, that in the real world I am of the majority even if most people don't consciously know it. I don't even know ANYONE personally who have driven their cars to their handling limit in ANY type of environment and I know a lot of Vette owners. However, every single person that I know enjoys and frequently goes WOT in some sort of way. Yes, building cars that can go x time around a road course gets that brand good recognition from the Euro trash magazine writers, who in turn tell the reader it's a great car, who in turn automatically believes it's a great car and buys it. The fact of the matter is the VAST majority of those cars never experience their handling limit. They do quite often get driven hard in a straight line.

...and an even GREATER majority of Hellcat owners will NEVER hold a personally-run 11.2 time slip, either...

Strap yourself into the driver's seat of a ZL1, a car capable of low-mid 12s, and send yourself off to Grandma's house, a 100 miles up the Pacific Coast Highway. Then, switch to a hellacious Hellcat, a car at least with the "potential" to run in the 11s...gee, maybe a whole second quicker if you're on a concrete pad with VHT stickin' like molasses to your Pep Boys tires, but with much less capability to handle the constantly-turning, elevation-changing vistas of said Highway. That may enjoy a recently-rare rainfall, or be dampened by those legendary Pacific mists...

With the possible exception of making a very risky pass on Ma 'n Pa Kettle's motorhome-rolling palace, with a tick or two's extra time to spare, people would generally pick the magic ride of the MRC-equipped ZL1 over the relatively lumbering gait of the Clysdale...

Total Package, with serious money spent in ALL areas of the car, vs. one with its budget largely spent JUST in the boiler room...for an everyday tick or two's-worth of "margin".

EDIT: Sorry, motorhead, I was editing the original...

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

...except EVERYONE turns corners and stops far more often than they accelerate @ WOT. And that stopping and cornering experience is far more effortless in a well-balanced handling-centric vehicle than it is in a monster truck...or a 45 year old throwback to skinnier tires, "acceptable" handling and, God help us, overpowered-on-a-damp-or-wet-or-icy-road.

This car in a throwback to a long-ago time dreamed about, through rose-coloured glasses, by "re-creationists" trying to relive some supposed magical-mystical time when Sunoco 260 sold for 50 cents a gallon and Viet Nam raged. It's also of keen interest to their spawn, who listened to daddy or Uncle Joe tell tall tales about his 11-second-of-the-showroom-floor 6 PACK (after imbibing said 6-pack) and have enough wherewithal to "git me one of them sumbitches". Stops "purdy good". Handles "a gun rack". "Smokes the tars real fine, too!" After all, SRT MUST stand for Smokes Rear Tires...which makes one wonder why the Neon got that "hallowed" moniker.

A feat, BTW, originated by the Brand-enhanced GT500. Not much new, here.

Now you know why the beltline of the Challenger is so high. It prevents your knuckles from dragging on the ground when you hang your arm out the window...

See ya.

At times you come across like a condescending pompous ass. There are more opinions out there besides yours.

By the way, what do you drive?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

At times you come across like a condescending pompous ass. There are more opinions out there besides yours. Touche'

By the way, what do you drive?

[tongue firmly in cheek] Apparently, I drive some folks to the liquor cabinet...or the Coors cardboard canteen...

[tones2SS]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Ain't America a GREAT country?

Well,................I will agree with you on this one at least.
America is the GREATEST Country.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

There's some smoke-n-mirrors at play, here, while the 'net racers seem to think EVERY HELLCAT will run low 11s on Pep boys OE tires, and 10s with just DRs.

I'm from Missouri. SHOW ME THE SLIPS.

Thank you! This is what I was trying to point out earlier this week. The numbers don't make sense.

The claimed ET's relative to what other cars with better power to weight don't make sense. I.e GT500, Viper, ZR1

Using a theoretical ET calculator, the Hellcat would have to run a perfect theoretical ET to match the Dodge claims. Do the same calculation for any other car you know the performance of and reality is nowhere near the the theoretical.

[Whos_Drivin]

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

I think you mistake my post as meaning that new pony cars don't need any balance or handling. They do, it just doesn't need to be the main focus and priority. That's what 1LE and BOSS type cars are for, to fill that type of market. Even the great majority of those special cars will never touch a road course. I myself would rather have a good handling car with fantastic acceleration than a superior handling car with just good acceleration. I promise, that in the real world I am of the majority even if most people don't consciously know it. I don't even know ANYONE personally who have driven their cars to their handling limit in ANY type of environment and I know a lot of Vette owners. However, every single person that I know enjoys and frequently goes WOT in some sort of way. Yes, building cars that can go x time around a road course gets that brand good recognition from the Euro trash magazine writers, who in turn tell the reader it's a great car, who in turn automatically believes it's a great car and buys it. The fact of the matter is the VAST majority of those cars never experience their handling limit. They do quite often get driven hard in a straight line.

You don't have to drive the car to its limit for it to make you a better driver. Most ZL1 owners will never drive it to the limit in the turns or 1/4, but they're all better in a ZL1 than they would be in a SS. The MRC in the ZL1 is amazing for a pony car and is very often overlooked.

I personally love winding country back roads because I can use all of the cars features...and still keep it under 100 to avoid jail. I'm not all about stroking my ego doing burnouts, racing between lights, or telling people my car went XX.XX in the 1/4. The fact that people think that's the minority of car enthusiasts dumbfounds me.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Whos_Drivin

I personally love winding country back roads because I can use all of the cars features...and still keep it under 100 to avoid jail.

Yes! Especially when keeping the RPMs 3000 or above. Makes my heart race!

[Number 3]

Boy, how wonderful the internets is. Not only can we bash the other brands we can bash each other.

IMO, Fiat has done something simply wonderful. I don't care what car they put it in or what it may or may not do for the VERY few that will ever run it down a sanctioned 1/4 mile or road course. They put an emissions compliant engine in the market that you or I can CHOOSE to buy that makes 707 HP.

And let's not forget the even bigger poke in the eye to Ford and GM. It's not the 707 number that's the poke.....................it's the $59,000 sticker price. That is the real WOW.

That they've done this doesn't make GM a fail, not in the least. It only means Fiat has done something special.

Could GM put the LS9 in a Camaro? Yes, but I'm pretty sure those tools didn't get moved to Bowling Green and there hasn't been a car to put the engine in for over a year.

To do so would be the same argument that the Z/28 is too expensive. There are a lot of people in here that don't understand the financials of putting a hand built engine in a car vs. a mass produced engine (LS9 vs. LSA). The LS9, as pointed out earlier, would make the ZR1 a $70,000 car.

Now many of you don't like that, but it's GM's business model. They built Wixom to hand build near custom engines at lower volumes rather than invest capital to mass produce them. That decision allowed GM to put rare, special built engines, with special/unique parts in cars that could afford the price hit. Those Wixom built engines were never intended to go in lower priced cars. The closest exception is the LS3s built there for the Corvette GS. Those needed the dry sump oil system that was put in the manual transmission equipped cars, somewhat more likely to see track duty. GM elected to not put a crazy hand built price on that engine, but again it simply used the high volume parts from the engine in my SS right now.

Yes, in business, there are ways to spread costs across other models and other cars. Yes, GM could choose to sell an LS9 powered Camaro for $49,995 and just give away profit and contribution margin only for the sake of making people "happy-er". That is simply not how GM works or most successful companies for that matter. The ones that will do that are in need of making a point..............i.e. a 707 HP $59,000 point................to get attention where there was none.

Keep in mind, the Challenger is a fine automobile. But regardless of the opinions, it has been in 3rd place in sales for as long as Fiat, GM and Ford have had products in this segment. They needed to make a point. This just happens to be a very good one.

But as usual, JMO

[hotlap]

It's a boob job on an otherwise dull girl. Then having to suffer with her fiance bring her to your house every day to tell you that you made a mistake marrying a physically balanced, more sophisticate girl.

"Everyone knows! Boobs matter most." Not!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

It's a boob job on an otherwise dull girl. Then having to suffer with her fiance bring her to your house every day to tell you that you made a mistake marrying a physically balanced, more sophisticate girl.

"Everyone knows! Boobs matter most." Not!

Ha! You're a misguided fool. EVERYONE knows it's butts and abs. LOL

There is no right answer is there.

BTW, it's not real pizza without Peperoni. I don't care what you say.