Sorry Detroit! Consumer Reports shut out.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Who cares what they think about cars, I am waiting for their best toaster issue...

This IS the best toaster issue

Consumer Reports rates APPLIANCES and that is exactly what they've done.

[SteelCamaro]

Originally Posted by MikeSVX

BRZ isn't AWD. Both cars are RWD only.

I never said it was. I was referring to the Impreza.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok, as much as you want to claim they don't know cars..................they do. They just don't look at cars the way Camaro enthusiasts do. They evaluate cars based on "regular" people. Those things are around usability, trunk space, features etc.

Go back and look at the "bitch list" from this very website. Poor trunk, poor visibility, plastic interior, poor storage, poor cup holder location relative to the shifter, poor rear seats, on and on........ That's how they look at cars. They don't let the passion of a Camaro, for example, over shadow the basics.

To get a CR Recommended Buy, covetted by all OEMs, you must have 3 things:

1 - basic safety equipment from their list.

2 - Better than average reliabilty from the survey (keep in mind you don't have to own one to rate one)

3 - Good rating for perforamance as evaluated by the magazine

Not saying it's awesome, but you have to understand the perspective. It took me a lonnnnnggggggg time to come to grips with it.

Things I take issue with, 2. on your list, you don't have to even own a vehicle to rate it's reliability, how exactly does tht work? Then they were caught giving Toyotas top picks automatically without a test, 3, as mentioned, they take 2 identical cars, IE Corolla and Nova or Corolla and Prism, or Matrix and Vibe and they give one a recommended rating while not the other when the ONLY difference is the badge. THese are the things I don't understand and that make no sense if they are truly unbiased in their recommendations.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by ROBOSSRS

Now this is going back a few years, but my brother-in-law's Scooby Doo was parked beside my Buick during a hail storm. No dents on my Buick. His Scooby Doo was riddled with dents.

Yeah a guy did 1900 bucks worth of damage to my Outback with a shopping cart one time. The tailgate looked like the car had been rear ended but when I sold it she had 370K and was still going like she did not want to give up. However my feet kept getting wet the floorboard gave up before the car did lol

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Stew

Things I take issue with, 2. on your list, you don't have to even own a vehicle to rate it's reliability, how exactly does tht work? Then they were caught giving Toyotas top picks automatically without a test, 3, as mentioned, they take 2 identical cars, IE Corolla and Nova or Corolla and Prism, or Matrix and Vibe and they give one a recommended rating while not the other when the ONLY difference is the badge. THese are the things I don't understand and that make no sense if they are truly unbiased in their recommendations.

Sorry, let me be more clear. The reliabilty rating is determined only from the Survey of Subscribers. But you don't have to own the car to rate it. Unlike JD Power where you get the survey based on having bought and owned the car. I suspect most people are evaluating the car they bought, it's just not a requirement like JD Power.

Also, the difference in models made by two brands is not considered in the survey. It's based on the results, not the magazine editors. They only effect the performance evaluation.

The badge difference isn't from the magazine. It is from the survey. Check the performance part and you will see them rating them the same.

The recommendation is based on:

Does the car have the minimum level of safety performance YES or NO

Does the car have better than average reliability based on reader survey YES or NO

Does the magazine rate the performance better than average YES or NO

You need a YES in all 3 to get a recommended buy. The magazine does not over rule the safety content or the sreliability urvey to give a recommended buy.

So the badge differences are from the customers/readers, not the magazine.

BTW, we heard tales of clinics that were done that had the Prizm and Corolla in the same study. The same car always cliniced higher with the Toyota badge.

Another story, Mrs. Number 3 participated in observing a clinic for the Cadillac XLR (which I worked on ) and a woman gushed over the un branded car in the clinic. Couldn't wait to buy one. When she was told t was Cadillac she said "her mother might like the car".

It is a prejudice that exists in a big way against American made products and sadly the Big 3 earned it with years of inferior products in the 70s 80s and 90s. Now kids are simply reflecting what they heard from their parents about those American made cars.

But I saw data for cars made by GM off the same platform. Century vs. Regal of the old W car platform for example are basically the same car. The Regal had SC V6, bucket seats, floor console shifter. The Century (bought by older buyers) had a NA V6, bench seat etc. The Regal always did much worse in the quality surveys. Same basic car built by the same workers in the same plant using mostly the same suppliers. But one was at the top (Centrury) and another mid pack (Regal). Likely due to the expectations of two wildly different buyers.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry, let me be more clear. The reliabilty rating is determined only from the Survey of Subscribers. But you don't have to own the car to rate it. Unlike JD Power where you get the survey based on having bought and owned the car. I suspect most people are evaluating the car they bought, it's just not a requirement like JD Power.

Also, the difference in models made by two brands is not considered in the survey. It's based on the results, not the magazine editors. They only effect the performance evaluation.

The badge difference isn't from the magazine. It is from the survey. Check the performance part and you will see them rating them the same.

The recommendation is based on:

Does the car have the minimum level of safety performance YES or NO

Does the car have better than average reliability based on reader survey YES or NO

Does the magazine rate the performance better than average YES or NO

You need a YES in all 3 to get a recommended buy. The magazine does not over rule the safety content or the sreliability urvey to give a recommended buy.

So the badge differences are from the customers/readers, not the magazine.

BTW, we heard tales of clinics that were done that had the Prizm and Corolla in the same study. The same car always cliniced higher with the Toyota badge.

Another story, Mrs. Number 3 participated in observing a clinic for the Cadillac XLR (which I worked on ) and a woman gushed over the un branded car in the clinic. Couldn't wait to buy one. When she was told t was Cadillac she said "her mother might like the car".

It is a prejudice that exists in a big way against American made products and sadly the Big 3 earned it with years of inferior products in the 70s 80s and 90s. Now kids are simply reflecting what they heard from their parents about those American made cars.

But I saw data for cars made by GM off the same platform. Century vs. Regal of the old W car platform for example are basically the same car. The Regal had SC V6, bucket seats, floor console shifter. The Century (bought by older buyers) had a NA V6, bench seat etc. The Regal always did much worse in the quality surveys. Same basic car built by the same workers in the same plant using mostly the same suppliers. But one was at the top (Centrury) and another mid pack (Regal). Likely due to the expectations of two wildly different buyers.

So, all this should be taken as strict opinion, and a prejudiced and biased one at that, and not fact? I remember the same with the Dodge intrepid, Chysler Oncorde, and Eagle VIsion in the mid 90s, same cars, same engines, same transmissions, exact same equipment, the CHrysler got a Recommmended (possibly the eagle too) and the Dodge didn't. All of this is making me take even a lower stance on CR, did not think that was possible.

[BigBlock69RS]

Originally Posted by Stew

Things I take issue with, 2. on your list, you don't have to even own a vehicle to rate it's reliability, how exactly does tht work? Then they were caught giving Toyotas top picks automatically without a test, 3, as mentioned, they take 2 identical cars, IE Corolla and Nova or Corolla and Prism, or Matrix and Vibe and they give one a recommended rating while not the other when the ONLY difference is the badge. THese are the things I don't understand and that make no sense if they are truly unbiased in their recommendations.

[Citation needed]

[SnowVert]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

Why is what snowvert said deserving of an eye roll?

From everyone I've talked to, as well as reviews the BRZ/Twin are fantastic little cars. MotorTrend ranked it higher than the ZL1 and the GT500. They're supposed to be really well dialed in, and for the price, I'd imagine it's difficult to match the fun they provide in a new car.

I'd like to drive one to see what the hype is all about, much in the same way I'd LOVE to drive a ZL1/1LE/Boss.

www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1208_2012_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/viewall.html

they are just twice as jealous because it even ranked higher than the ZL-1 in the Motor Trend 2012 Best Driver's Car. :wink:

Again though, I will stress, that to me, the BRZ and the Camaro are two drastically different classes of cars. I love both my BRZ and my Camaro but for completely different reasons. And personally, I'd gladly trade my BRZ for a ZL-1... I just cant find a ZL-1 for $26,000...

I will add that I find it humorous that many are complaining about the "biased" magazines and their absurd conclusions on a forum dedicated to Camaros and their enthusiasts. Which is also why I expect quite the flaming for this post on here .

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by SnowVert

www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1208_2012_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/viewall.html

they are just twice as jealous because it even ranked higher than the ZL-1 in the Motor Trend 2012 Best Driver's Car. :wink:

Again though, I will stress, that to me, the BRZ and the Camaro are two drastically different classes of cars. I love both my BRZ and my Camaro but for completely different reasons. And personally, I'd gladly trade my BRZ for a ZL-1... I just cant find a ZL-1 for $26,000...

I will add that I find it humorous that many are complaining about the "biased" magazines and their absurd conclusions on a forum dedicated to Camaros and their enthusiasts. Which is also why I expect quite the flaming for this post on here .

It's because here it's always magazine bias unless it's magazine bias in favour of the Camaro

All mags are payed off in someway or another....

Duh...




Also Number 3, how old was the woman that said that about the Caddy? If she was under 50 it would make sense for her to say that, considering Cadillac is considered a brand for people on the near verge of death.... I still wouldn't buy a CTS-V for that reason I don't care if it were to have 1000 Horsepower and Fly...