ABC NEWS: "Factories to remain open during the bankruptcy"

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Exactly. GM, itself, got in this mess by ITSELF. UAW and the bondholders would not accept anything GM offered them in the past few years.

If GM had filed Chap 11 last year you would of seen an amazing turnaround. It would of been BEFORE the market collapse. Before the mortgage crisis. It would of been huge news but the company would of emerged far healthier and it would own itself.

Now, that the government owns GM lets see how long it takes to truly fail. A study recently said that almost 95% of companies that go into bankruptcy protection completely fail in the next five years.

Going to be an interesting year.

Again, the cost of doint business as a "governemtn owned" entity has to be figured in. This is my biggest concern. My hope is it doesn't jack the prices of the cars up. I'm not saying that a Government owned/controlled GM is a good thing. But it may show the Gov. that they can't force a product to the consumer that a consumer doesn't want for a price they won't pay...

I don't think it is fair to predict what's going to happen.


I didn't know about the Federal Loans being paid back through stock ownership/sales. I thought that only applied to debt other than the fed loans.

[bballr4567]

Hopefully, there isnt too much government interaction with GM. Just telling them to straighten up and get right. If they try to run it like an actual government entity then we might be in some serious trouble.

Seriously, how will GM pay back the loans it owes if the person that owns the loans owns them? Make sense?

[McGruff]

For the most part, we can agree that Chapter 11 will help GM, or "Government Motors", get back on its feet. What we're all worried about though is the perception of a Chapter 11 for the average consumer.

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home...sler-or-GM-Car

Right away, they cut to the chase:

According to a recent Consumer Reports pulse survey, more than three quarters (78 percent) of respondents said they were unlikely to consider buying a new car from an automaker in bankruptcy; 64 percent were very unlikely.

Camaro-love aside, how is GM going to shake off this perception of failure and get back on its feet? The Camaro won't save GM, they need cars like the Malibu to sell a lot better, and I can't see how someone, given GM's current state, will lean towards one over a Toyota or Honda unless they either love GM or want to help the country.

If you were in GM's shoes, what would you do?

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

A study recently said that almost 95% of companies that go into bankruptcy protection completely fail in the next five years.

Going to be an interesting year.

I used to work for Kmart back in the day. They filed for bankruptcy in 2002 and are still around after 7 years...even despite the always present juggernaut that is Wal-Mart.

On an interesting note, at least for me, the man who led Kmart through their bankruptcy proceedings, Albert Koch, is supposed to help GM do the same.

GM will be fine, I'm sure.

[dkb]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

And they will. GM has been doing this for years now with ethanol and hybrids. Please don't equate fuel efficient and green with no more muscle cars.

The bottom line is now, more then ever, GM needs to sell cars that are profitable. Now the Gov also needs gm to be profitable first, Green and fuel efficient second.

I'm more concerned that the Gov will jack up the price of the camaro since it is selling well... The Gov is about to get a lesson in supply and demand. they can't force consumers to buy what they want to produce. GM Tried that in the 80's and are still paying for that mistake.

So lets see how it plays out.

I continually read statements on these boards like "... now the gov needs GM to be profitable."

The government and their close ally the UAW now own the company. (more than 90% including the canadian gov)

Private shareholders have been wiped out entirely. If they make a profit they'll be paying themselves and the gov has no need for a few billion in revenue from GM. They've already got trillions in tax dollars from us.

The gov does have an agenda though, it just doesn't involve making a profit.

The gov wants to make little green cars and pay off the UAW.
And the UAW has an agenda ... secure union jobs at all costs ... hence not allowing GM to bring the small cars it already makes in Europe and China over here ...

And there's the future of GM ... major decisions based on politics.

btw - It's tough to enforce a ban on politics when we're discussing a company ... which is now owned by politicians .... seems to me ....

[Brokinarrow]

I just hope this goes smoothly for GM, hope to see them coming out the otherside of this running. And I'm VERY relieved to see that my Camaro will still be getting produced May have to try n buy some GM stock once its available if things look promising...

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Hopefully, there isnt too much government interaction with GM. Just telling them to straighten up and get right. If they try to run it like an actual government entity then we might be in some serious trouble.

Seriously, how will GM pay back the loans it owes if the person that owns the loans owns them? Make sense?

Once again, In order for them to do this they have to include the cost of the loan payback into the price of a new car. Otherwise you are right, they are between a rock and a hard place. But this is exactly what any business does with debt. It just becomes part of their operating expenses.

See what I'm sayin.

[Brokinarrow]

I think if GM can make this bankruptcy go smoothly, as Chrysler is doing now, that as they are preparing to exit people will see that they got their act together. Once that happens, consumer confidence should spring back up and people will start buying GMs again.

[CWI]

Originally Posted by Camaroyoung

Bush and Obama both thought GM was to big to fail and spent billions of taxpayer dollars doing it. Yes we want our camaros but having the government own 70% of a private company means they will call the shots. Obama doesn't strike me as the V8 big horsepower kind of guy. The V8 camaro has been saved for now but don't count on the government to keep the muscle car dream alive. If they had their way, we would all be driving civics tomorrow! (Except for them of course)

There will always be room for muscle cars, maybe not as many, there are far fewer now than when I was a teenager and there will be fewer still in another few years but there sill still be some.

Originally Posted by Justcallme61

What I want to know is what will happen to shareholders? What if I were to buy stocks now? Would it be a good idea to buy stocks now?

Gm stock is actually up 7 cents as I type

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Blame all the Mustangs on The Road

Hello Ford haters

Only reason there are so many Mustangs on the road is the absense of competition for the last 8 years. There are a lot of Mustang owners only because there has been no Camaro or any other worthwhile American made coupe on the market. Affordable anyways.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

If I'm not mistaken, trades of GM's stock were stopped/frozen this morning. Unfortunately I can't find the article I read this on; so I can't post a link. It was on Comcast.net's home page for those of you who have Comcast as an internet provider. I'm not sure how long that is supposed to last; so it looks like you couldn't buy any even if you wanted to. Although, the freeze may just apply to selling of stock and not buying.

How can you sell without a buyer. Kinda why GM is where they are, not as much to do with management as economy. All car makers are struggling, and it's not just the car makers. The world economy is is in bad shape.
Although they have gotten through without borrowing so far, Ford stock is only 60% of what it was 18 months ago, and only 6 months ago it was worth pennies. Too bad GM didn't recover like that.

Originally Posted by gtahvit

OK guys, The bottom line is None of us know what's going to happen.
GM has to know include the loan payback as part of the cost of doing business. Just like they do with any other loan. The Gov. has said over and over again that they don't want to own car companies. So as long as GM pays back the loan they will be fine and out from under that influence

Also the unsustainable components of GM will be litigated in bankruptcy court freeing GM of that liability. And GM has already downsized and reduced the product line. So lets ride this out. Not that we have a choice. Give it some time.

And thanks for keeping Party/partisan politics out of this conversation. Yes, President Obama is at the forefront but lets not turn this into a Rep vs Dem debate.

Thanks very much.

That's true

Originally Posted by mutant chicken

I just listened to Obama make his anouncement on tv and while he was trying to calm everyone about the bankrupcy the thing that he kept talking about was that GM was going to be making clean, fuel efficient vehicles...

They already do, or they will be out soon.

Originally Posted by Vash

I think Corvette might be looking at the end road. The plant closed(temp), 600 fired. Only new product annoucement is a way overpriced ZR1, which is awsome but hardly gonna move in numbers to pay wages at Bowling Green. Scary times...

SS is for sure under the gun behind closed doors.

It sounds stupid but, I want them to drop the DI engine out of the LS and make the LS with a smaller mpg engine. (Hides behind chicken wire from tomato's and beer cans).

edit add: Well it can be DI I mean make it smaller ONLY in LS as distraction for continued SS production.

1LT would still be the same powertrain. This would make Camaro look more mpg on paper and bring the LS closer to the entry mustang.

Numbers may be way off but I think we will continue to see Corvettes produced either by reduced workforce or by shortened production season.

Mod Edit: deleted quoted post.

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Not only did you quote me but then you ignored me.

Note: To anyone else whose posts were deleted here- There is a zero tolerance policy on partisan politics. ZERO!



Good I'm not the only one who noticed that.



And you are stating your opinion? I'm sure.



This thread is about to get closed. Last warning. Whomever makes the post that results in the closure gets banned. You've all been warned.

Come on people, I was going to ask the same thing. This has been a good thread. Don't mess with the Mods. Keep the thread open.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by dkb

I continually read statements on these boards like "... now the gov needs GM to be profitable."

The government and their close ally the UAW now own the company. (more than 90% including the canadian gov)

Private shareholders have been wiped out entirely. If they make a profit they'll be paying themselves and the gov has no need for a few billion in revenue from GM. They've already got trillions in tax dollars from us.

The gov does have an agenda though, it just doesn't involve making a profit.

The gov wants to make little green cars and pay off the UAW.
And the UAW has an agenda ... secure union jobs at all costs ... hence not allowing GM to bring the small cars it already makes in Europe and China over here ...

And there's the future of GM ... major decisions based on politics.

btw - It's tough to enforce a ban on politics when we're discussing a company ... which is now owned by politicians .... seems to me ....

Please don't test me. Everyone has done just fine up until this point. It is a forum rule not my personal vendetta against political debate. All the mods uphold this.


Now, I don't dispute the relationships you maintain. Everyone wants to siphon off some leverage/contol/profitability here. And I tend to agree that letting GM go bankrupt last year was the better choice IMO. I didn't feel that way then but I do know. My personal contention now is that if GM went through Chap 11 whithout fed loans. They could get out of the union choke hold and start over. Maybe even move to right to work states where they don't have to have unions....

FWIW.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Now, I don't dispute the relationships you maintain. Everyone wants to siphon off some leverage/contol/profitability here. And I tend to agree that letting GM go bankrupt last year was the better choice IMO. I didn't feel that way then but I do know. My personal contention now is that if GM went through Chap 11 whithout fed loans. They could get out of the union choke hold and start over. Maybe even move to right to work states where they don't have to have unions....

FWIW.

Bingo. Nobody wanted them to file last year when they first asked for loans saying that is all they needed to keep going. 6-7 months later and here they are filing for Chap 11.

It would of lasted a little longer probably without government help but the company would of been FAR stronger and would of been keeping the profits itself.

I used to work for Kmart back in the day. They filed for bankruptcy in 2002 and are still around after 7 years...even despite the always present juggernaut that is Wal-Mart.

True. How many stores closed then? How many NEW stores have opened since they filed?

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by G.WILDRIDGE

I am still waiting on my camaro 2/ss. I ordered it back in sept. 2008 during the pre-sale and I still don't have it. I've got the vin # and it was made on 10/17 where's my car?????

Originally Posted by Bewenched

My car has been built and is sitting about 20 miles from my dealer I guess at some sort of cross doc. wierd thing is that my dealer says it wont be at his lot until late this week?? wierd.

This is not the thread for this. Check out this forum for your answers.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Welcome to the site.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

True. How many stores closed then? How many NEW stores have opened since they filed?

Couldn't tell ya. However, because they merged with SEARS and created Sears Holding Corp, TECHNICALLY they have hundreds if not thousands of SEARS stores under their control now that they didn't before, so...

[kozmo]

I think we all need to realize the fact that it is what it is. Hopefully GM will come out ok and eventually will be profitable. Then the government will sell to the open market at fair market value so we wont be making any more speculative accusations.