We Need An American Autobahn

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Sadly Americans can't handle no speed limits. Case in point Montana... Had no speed limit on its highways. People started coming over to top end their cars and what not and kept killing themselves... Now Montana has a speed limit on highways.

Actually, that wasn't the issue in Montana. What happened is, they never really got rid of speed limits. They changed it to that ridiculously arbitrary "reasonable and prudent" standard. It all hit the fan when a guy (in a Camaro ironically enough) got ticketed for doing 85. He took his case to the state supreme court, and ultimately, the law was struck down because what exactly was "reasonable and prudent" was not defined. The driver got out of a speeding ticket, and the entire state got a defined speed limit again.

Originally Posted by harrycamaro

Americans drive quite good?? come back for a visit and say that again...I hate the majority of drivers here.

So do I, but compared to the rest of the world, American drivers are actually more skilled in most categories (except for handling speed, which we are second to the Germans at for obvious reasons). Yes, many drivers are bad here, but on the whole, they are even worse elsewhere (though granted, we due tend to be much ruder).

Originally Posted by b4z

An autobahn would be great, I'd love it. But high speed rail would be safer.
186-220 mph with Internet and a bathroom beats the stress of driving among idiots.

The point of an autobahn would be faster transportation. How does an empty high speed train that almost no one will ride move people faster?

[=Stephens=]

Here is my two cents...I am in the Army and lived in Germany for 3 years and I had a German drivers license. It is good for 5 years and the German driving test is the HARDEST test I have ever taken in my life. Over 100 questions and the right of way isn't the same as it is here in the U.S., it is more of myth that people think, they have speed limits on the Autobahn, but you can drive faster at certain points on the autobahn. The cost of fuel/petro is about 5 bucks a gallon or 1.33 per liter last I remember. Since it costs so much to drive fast, they really don't drive as fast as we think. They also have this impressive train system called the Bonhoff and it is cheap to use and goes faster than any car that they can afford. I didn't see any SUV's or Trucks, they are all 4 or 6 cylinder cars over there.

The motorcycle license over there is even harder than the automobile. I wouldn't want to live there forever and the price is through the roof. Get a DUI and you lose your license depending on your BAC.

[rydahog]

As long as there is IIhs..and artificially low speed limits to generate income for states. NO autobahn...sorry friends..your just going to have to resign yourselves to playing racing roulette with the local gendarmes....(PO PO) )

[dolt45]

Originally Posted by =Stephens=

Here is my two cents...I am in the Army and lived in Germany for 3 years and I had a German drivers license. It is good for 5 years and the German driving test is the HARDEST test I have ever taken in my life. Over 100 questions and the right of way isn't the same as it is here in the U.S., it is more of myth that people think, they have speed limits on the Autobahn, but you can drive faster at certain points on the autobahn. The cost of fuel/petro is about 5 bucks a gallon or 1.33 per liter last I remember. Since it costs so much to drive fast, they really don't drive as fast as we think. They also have this impressive train system called the Bonhoff and it is cheap to use and goes faster than any car that they can afford. I didn't see any SUV's or Trucks, they are all 4 or 6 cylinder cars over there.

The motorcycle license over there is even harder than the automobile. I wouldn't want to live there forever and the price is through the roof. Get a DUI and you lose your license depending on your BAC.

Sounds like things have changed a bit since I was there. Back in the 80's (when I was there) about half of the Autobahn was free of speed limits.
I agree that the driving test over there is tougher. I seem to remember going to a week long class to be able to pass it. But, lucky me, gas was relatively cheap back then.

Oh... Bahnoff is a train station. Train would be Zug or Eisenbahnzug. Yes, I'm OCD. What of it?

[LikaRokBowTie]

I was stationed at Aviano AB back in the early 80's and bought a Fiat Brava so I could get around and see all of Italy or as much as possible and spent plenty of time on the autostrada going to the beaches and I learned the rules of the road quickly flashing headlights from a porsche or ferrari mean get your ass over now!I took a trip through Austria into Germany to go to OktoberFest and then drove over to Frankfort for the International Auto Show where the Porsche 959 was being displayed for the first time,and I will never forget looking up in the rearview at some headlights fast approaching and I'm doing about 120 I looked down for about 1 sec and when I looked back up a Lambo was up my ass flashing his lights and I got over fast he must have been doing 180+.Later on down the road I was passed by a Merkur I think that is what the euro version of ford-mercury called it and all of a sudden traffic came to a stop about 30 minutes down the road the people who passed me in that car slammed into a VW Bus and the person on the passenger side was halfway on the hood and I could see blood coming from the rear passengers ears when we passed,the polizei someone correct me if that spelling is wrong responded quickly with a helicopter even,so they have an ocassional accident,but sure less than here,I vote yes for american autobahn charge an annual fee to register your car and take an advanced driving course and your car must also pass a test to be able to go on the road.

[Broffermoon]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

We need an American autobahn. The freedom of a limitless highway is something that should be part of the fundamental American dream. Driving fast is an American value for so many car enthusiasts, but it is not an option in a nation so obsessed with driving defensively. If people obeyed the laws, then driving defensively would be a little less necssary—no more breaking abruptly for no reason, no more driving 10mph under the speed limit. Since American drivers have none of the discipline that exists on the German autobahn, it will be a long time before we see this here.

When I lived in Montana, we had it for a few years. Big problem, law enforcement. The state troopers came unglued! The speed limit was: "Whatever is reasonable and prudent." That happened right after the national 55 speed limit was repealed. The Interstates were awesome! Going from Butte to Great Falls! Oh wow!

[=Stephens=]

Originally Posted by dolt45

Sounds like things have changed a bit since I was there. Back in the 80's (when I was there) about half of the Autobahn was free of speed limits.
I agree that the driving test over there is tougher. I seem to remember going to a week long class to be able to pass it. But, lucky me, gas was relatively cheap back then.

Oh... Bahnoff is a train station. Train would be Zug or Eisenbahnzug. Yes, I'm OCD. What of it?

Thanks for the correction on the train, we just called it the Bahnoff.

And when I was there I saw only one Lamborghini the whole time and he wasn't speeding, he was actually going under the speed limits when he was driving.

[PitchBlack]

Originally Posted by Broffermoon

When I lived in Montana, we had it for a few years. Big problem, law enforcement. The state troopers came unglued! The speed limit was: "Whatever is reasonable and prudent." That happened right after the national 55 speed limit was repealed. The Interstates were awesome! Going from Butte to Great Falls! Oh wow!

Man, what an experience I bet that was! Just once I would like to get on an open stretch of road like that and just open mine up to experience what this car can really do.

[Blu Ray]

Until 1999 Montana was the closest thing

In the years before 1974's national 55 mph limit, and for three years after the 1995 repeal of the increased 65 mph limit, Montana had a non-numeric "reasonable and prudent" speed limit during the daytime on most rural roads. Montana Code Annotated (MCA) Section 61-8-303 said "A person . . . shall drive the vehicle . . . at a rate of speed no greater than is reasonable and proper under the conditions existing at the point of operation . . . so as not to unduly or unreasonably endanger the life, limb, property, or other rights of a person entitled to the use of the street or highway."

Typical speed limit sign that one would see at the Montana state line from December 1995 to June 1999.


Montana law also specified a few numeric limits: a night speed limit, usually 55 or 65 mph (89–105 km/h), depending on road type; 25 mph (40 km/h) in urban districts and 35 mph (56 km/h) in construction zones.
The phrase "reasonable and prudent" is found in the language of most state speed laws. This allows prosecution under non-ideal conditions such as rain or snow when the speed limit would be imprudently fast.
[edit] No speed limit

On March 10, 1996, a Montana patrolman issued a speeding ticket to a driver traveling at 85 mph (136 km/h) on a stretch of State Highway 200. The 50 year-old driver (Rudy Stanko) was operating a 1996 Camaro with less than 10,000 miles (16,093 km) on the odometer. Although the officer gave no opinion as to what would have been a reasonable speed, the driver was convicted. The driver appealed to the Montana Supreme Court. The Court reversed the conviction in case No. 97-486 on December 23, 1998; it held that a law requiring drivers to drive at a non-numerical "reasonable and proper" speed "is so vague that it violates the Due Process Clause ... of the Montana Constitution".
Effective May 28, 1999, as a result of that decision, the Montana Legislature established a speed limit of 75 mph.[110

[CWI]

Originally Posted by AngryAmish

Everyone acts like there are no boneheads in Germany.
I mean, I still don't see it happening either...but that doesn't mean it would be any worse here then in Germany.

Are there less boneheads in Germany than here? Sure, but keep in mind its only about the size of Montana.

We would actually make money on a road like the Autobahn. Think of the Tourism aspect.

I only read the first page but this caught my eye, nothing against AngryAmish. Actually Germans go through much more training and education to obtain a driver's license at an older age than Americans as well at a greater expense. For one thing, they spend more time with an intructor and then an examiner than we do. They don't learn to drive on the road with a parent like here. Yes they are better drivers because of it. Penalties are also much stiffer there. They protect their privilege much more than some here.

[CWI]

Another consideration if it hasn't been mentioned is that a lot more engineering and material goes into the Autobahn. It has more than twice the thickness and reinforcement than typical US Interstates. This alone would make it far too costly to even be considered.

[hightower]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

american autobahn..great, it'll be jammed with ricers and Prius.

Yep


It'd be full of idiots trying to max out their civics. And it'd probably also have it's fair share of muscle car douchebags trying to race every other car on the road.

As cool as it sounds, it's a horrible idea and I'd never support it.

[=Stephens=]

Seriously if there were no speed limits how long would you drive at 100+ mph? At the going rate of fuel right now you wouldn't go too far unless you have a ton of cash for gas.

If Germany is the size of Montana.. it doesn't cost them as much to maintain they're roads because there is less to cover. Can you even imagine the cost the government would have to spend constantly repairing and replacing roads? You think our taxes are bad now. Can't imagine.

[b4z]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Actually, that wasn't the issue in Montana. What happened is, they never really got rid of speed limits. They changed it to that ridiculously arbitrary "reasonable and prudent" standard. It all hit the fan when a guy (in a Camaro ironically enough) got ticketed for doing 85. He took his case to the state supreme court, and ultimately, the law was struck down because what exactly was "reasonable and prudent" was not defined. The driver got out of a speeding ticket, and the entire state got a defined speed limit again.



So do I, but compared to the rest of the world, American drivers are actually more skilled in most categories (except for handling speed, which we are second to the Germans at for obvious reasons). Yes, many drivers are bad here, but on the whole, they are even worse elsewhere (though granted, we due tend to be much ruder).



The point of an autobahn would be faster transportation. How does an empty high speed train that almost no one will ride move people faster?

You are assuming that no one would ride it. Why? I've ridden high speed rail twice. Zurich to paris nord and London st. Pancreas to Paris nord. It is the best way to travel, bar none. London to paris 2:15. Washington to new York. Minn to,st. Paul. Chicago,to,detroit nothing can beat high speed rail on those distances, including flying.