2013 GT500 Video about TRACTION

[eolson]

I agree, they would have gone larger in the rear for sure as many will do with the car after purchasing it and dial out understeer with adjustable sway bars and other tricks.. The Camaro is heavier in the rear because of Independent rear suspension and a few other items, this is why it has a 51/49 weight distribution and heavier weight in total, but the harmony of the car is obviously outstanding for the 4120 lb weight proved by the 7:41 Nurgurgring time.

This brings up the real issue as a Mustang owner. It's really all about the Mustang GT and the after market. Even with my Saleen SC and added suspension and chassis items, I spent a good deal on front weight reduction which totals 154 lbs from stock in front, then add back on the SC and added suspension/chassis parts, I'm still 50lbs lighter than stock on my front end. 480rwhp is attainable in a standard way, with much less rotating mass as well. This is all on top of the initial cost of the car, which is about equal to the prices we'll be talking about in the end. It's the only way I could get a really fast, very well handling, well braking Mustang in the 06-08 period.

It is frustrating that the Muscle Car Coupe Manufacturers have made so many amazing improvements but are still burdened by having heavy, front heavy cars. That's why so many Mustang owners spend in the aftermarket. It would be great to be able to get a fast well balanced car for a standard price, and we're a lot closer now. Erik

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Thats not a Ford rep, just some Jibroni...
Besides, Zl1 is still twice the car the 500 is any day of the week.

so you would rather listen to a representative?

twice the car...care to explain? Why, because it looks purdier in your opinion? One might say a fully loaded Nissan Maxima is twice the car a ZL1 is but who is buying a ZL1 if not for performance???? And if the competition is beating it, how is it "twice the car?" You gonna be in for some serious awakening when the king pony's #s are released. I too am getting a ZL1 but I am open to the fact that the new GT500 will very likely be faster everywhere than the ZL1. BUt you are right, it is still "purdier."

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

The BOSS will be Z/28's competition, GT500 will be ZL-1 respectively....

[eolson]

Z 28 = ZL 1...............?? Erik

[rez333]

how come no-one's talked about the understeer? I think that was Jamal's main point: widening the rear tire increases understeer. A lot of camaro5 forum members criticize the Mustang for having skinny rear wheels, implying that camaro5 forum members go with wider tires themselves (unless the members are merely armchair critics - surely not).

Therefore can anyone corroborate with Jamal and agree that increasing tire width in the rear also increased understeer? Does the ZL1 have increased front tire width to match the wider rears?

[rez333]

Stock SS tires:
front: 245/45ZR20
rear: 275/40ZR20

Stock ZL1 tires:
front: 285/35 ZR20
rear: 305/35 ZR20

According to Jamal, if you increase rear tire width, you have to increase front tire width an equal amount to avoid understeer; however doing so will reduce steering feel in the front.

It appears GM has followed the playbook exactly, and increased both front and rear 30mm equally for the ZL1. It also stands to reason that huge 285 fronts WILL decrease steering feel and turn in response in the ZL1.

Discuss.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by rez333

Stock SS tires:
front: 245/45ZR20
rear: 275/40ZR20

Stock ZL1 tires:
front: 285/35 ZR20
rear: 305/35 ZR20

According to Jamal, if you increase rear tire width, you have to increase front tire width an equal amount to avoid understeer; however doing so will reduce steering feel in the front.

It appears GM has followed the playbook exactly, and increased both front and rear 30mm equally for the ZL1. It also stands to reason that huge 285 fronts WILL decrease steering feel and turn in response in the ZL1.

Discuss.

Its not that simple, the ZL1 suspension is more than just a wheel and tire swap. Also with 580 HP I'm glad it has 305s outback. Now for a possible Z/28 I hope GM will go with a square wheel/tire setup, 295 35 on 20x10.5 wheels at all four corners would be perfect imo.

[tomsws6]

Like someone said earlier. Ford will put the gt500 ahead of the ZL1 at any cost because they can. The ZL1 cant because it has a big brother. The only thing the Z has against the gt500 is on a course which the ZL1 has proven itself hands down. Niether one has been out in public hands so its all bench racing at its finest right now. The ZL1 is going to be a beast at both ends. Both should be able to take on the world compitition and smack them in the face. I like both cars but I think the ass end of both of them suck azz and you can bet Id have both in my garage if I could. Just my 2 cents.

[eolson]

All my efforts with my 06" Mustang Gt were to make it faster, lighter and more agile even though it had the added weight of Supercharging, chassis stiffening and a few added suspension parts beyond what came with the stock car. Also with replacing performance parts the goal was to have those parts be equal or lighter in weight to their stock counter parts.

The best I'll do with this plan is to have a 480rwhp car at 3410 lbs with less rotating mass on the wheels a little better front/rear weight ratio, better wider tires, and driveshaft than the stock car, as well as far better handling and brake fade resistance than the stock car.

My car truly handles great, and I still love driving it. But it took a lot of time and effort to get it hear, but back just a couple of years ago their was no alternative for over all superior performance in a Mustang. Meaning a truly powerful, much better handling car laterally, and a good deal lighter than other modern sport coupes. The Gt500 until recently, had a much better, more hardy, higher potential power plant, but that was it. My car was much lighter and better handling than the previous GT500's, better braking. There was a 510 lb difference between the GT500 and my car. Other than power, there is no way you could justify the added weight of the GT500 in terms of cornering and handling, a fit out Mustang GT for the same money was superior.

You could get the stock power of of the GT500 with a twin screw and a good tune on the Mustang GT, and far better fit out handling and weight loss, again with the added power, suspension, chassis stiffening,better braking and weight loss routine being basically equivalent to the added cost of the price of the GT500.

With this new version of the GT500, and the potential handling balance and power and acceleration, it no longer seems reasonable or desirable to fit out a new Mustang GT to try to match the GT500. The performance Gap is simply to large, where it was possible previously fairly easily. With all the new technology and performance of the new GT500 and Boss 302, I know my next purchase we'll be one of those two cars. The logic of building out the Standard GT to match the Boss302 or Gt500 is not financially possible or reasonable with this new level of car, and the inflated costs in the aftermarket. This has fundamentally changed the way I think of Mustang ownership and a car hobby. The previous Mustangs really were all about the Mustang GT and the aftermarket to me. Not so any more. Erik

[Lemmy]

My 2010 GT500 has a terrible traction from stand still problem. I'm not sure what can be done if anything. If different tires could help grab off the line, I could probably shave 0.5 seconds off the 1/4 time. But a lot of cars will beat it the first 150 feet simply because it is so hard to get a good launch. As for the 2013, few cars can touch it for flat out speed. The ZL-1 is a more balanced car but I'm not sure how much of that will translate to the street. Don't get too cocky if you see a GT500. Rumors of their sluggish nature are greatly exaggerated. At least the ones from 2010 on.

[Steve Dallas]

When Ford makes something faster than the Corvette, then maybe I'll be impressed...

[cvp33]

Once they get a true IRS setup, fix their interior fit and finish, improve their ergonomics, fix all the gremlins with Ford My Touch.........oh shit....they got a long way to go. All kidding aside, I suspect they'll get really close with the next generation to building a car I'd even consider.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

When Ford makes something faster than the Corvette, then maybe I'll be impressed...

2006 Ford GT.

[trademaster]

Wow this thread is full of some serious BS.