Evan Smith on 2013 GT500 traction....

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

The gt500 owner said, "Better than a gt500? I don't think so" and was called an asshat . That post has been changed now so it all looks very out of context, but if you had been there at first you would have seen it. Every single person on the forum isn't going to think the camaro is the best looking car on the planet. (Agreed and thank goodness they don't all look the same) You can't expect him not to respond unfavorably after being called an asshat for saying he doesn't think so. (If I had seen that, I would have addressed it..) If he didn't own a gt500 and said he thought the gt500 looked better, like dabears did immediately after his post, and in turn was called an asshat, how do you think he would have responded? It's not even like he tried to be offensive, he literally just said he disagreed. Nobody seems interested in going after dabears, but his comment was much more provocative. So much touchiness. I understand there is trolling and that trolling will come from non-owners, but black gt was not trolling in the LEAST until he was insulted for a very simple statement of, "I don't think so."



Read above.

I wasn't pointing out anyone in particular with my post... I was generalizing and responding to the post by 4DoorRocket... My comments were to all concerned...

We spend a huge amount of time trying to keep this site relevant and family friendly... and we have a few that think it's a public place where anything they wish to say can be... which isn't the case... This is a privately owned and operated site, available to most anyone, but we retain the right to ban users that fail to follow the rules or those that create problems. A heated discussion is not a problem... Name calling and childish antics is...

As I mentioned in my previous post, the Camaro owning members are not above the rules... It would serve the site better to report posts than to respond to them... We give infractions based on them being deserved, not based on the vehicle you drive... We also have access to parts of the forum the general popuation doesn't... and we track posting histories and watch trends... We have a much harder time without post's being reported...

I agree most of the "trolling" comes from non Camaro owners, but there are some that own Camaros as well... We fix what we can, what we know about, or what is reported to us... Regardless of the car owned or driven...

Thank you for your comments, I'm off to review some post histories right now...

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

I wasn't pointing out anyone in particular with my post... I was generalizing and responding to the post by 4DoorRocket... My comments were to all concerned...

We spend a huge amount of time trying to keep this site relevant and family friendly... and we have a few that think it's a public place where anything they wish to say can be... which isn't the case... This is a privately owned and operated site, available to most anyone, but we retain the right to ban users that fail to follow the rules or those that create problems. A heated discussion is not a problem... Name calling and childish antics is...

As I mentioned in my previous post, the Camaro owning members are not above the rules... It would serve the site better to report posts than to respond to them... We give infractions based on them being deserved, not based on the vehicle you drive... We also have access to parts of the forum the general popuation doesn't... and we track posting histories and watch trends... We have a much harder time without post's being reported...

I agree most of the "trolling" comes from non Camaro owners, but there are some that own Camaros as well... We fix what we can, what we know about, or what is reported to us... Regardless of the car owned or driven...

Thank you for your comments, I'm off to review some post histories right now...

Well said

I find however that a lot of the Camaro owners on this site, and you all know who I'm talking about will just come into a thread and post some moronic "but my car looks better" post when they have been explicitly asked not to post subjective comments. I love the GT500 and I will defend it when people are being ignorant but that being said if someone is dissing the Camaro I will also defend it. I'm not blind like some people on this forum and I understand that it is frowned upon to defend the Mustang on this site but when someone says "who cares?! The Camaro is just better than the Mustang because it is and I say so" it just shows complete ignorance. I could be wrong though since I support the killing of stupid people .

Keep up the hard work though!

[eolson]

Any hoo. Back to the original thread issue since I really like the new ZL1 and the new GT500.

If you consider the actual tire size issue of the GT500 and it's rear launch grip issues since 2007, the logical thing is not to argue about the difference in grip between a 305 wide and 28.4 tall rear tire(ZL1) and a 285 wide and 27.9" tall rear tire(GT500) that are both comprised of the same very grippy summer compound.

Ford chose that size for a very specific reasons.

1. There is no 20" 305 wide tires that will fit the Mustang properly. 305 is it's maximum width limit in a 20" tire, but the 305/35/20(ZL1 tire) is too tall at 28.4 for the Mustang. and 305/30/20" is too short with too little sidewall for good launching. So Ford made the only next best choice, the 285/35/20 at 27.9" height, losing the 20mm width and .5" of sidewall height, yes a compromise.

2. Ford with this choice in tire which is why they went with a taller 2.66 ratio for 1st gear with 3:31 final gears. This makes sense with the higher power level, since the taller gears will be far better for launching.

3. The car has real launch control now. So compared with the past, the car has a taller 285 tire, taller 1st gear, taller final gears, with more power to push the taller gears harder, but launch control to finally be equally equipped with other cars for launching.

Since I've had my car in the past up to 570HP(504rwhp) with stock 3:55 gears and 285/40/18 summer tires in rear with about 4.5" sidewalls, going to a 305 wide tire at that power level is not going to make a difference, it's going to be a taller tire, with a taller gear ratio with actual launch control.

That's exactly what Ford did with the new car, so launches can only get better than the previous 4.1 is the way I see it. Erik

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Oh, I'd beg to differ, some of the SL65 AMG Blacks, Aston Martins, and others KILL the mustang. The mustang doesn't look like a serious muscle car or agressive, it just looks like a "mustang". The Ford GT...now THAT looked like a serious car, a supercar, but it actually looked the part.

Ford is always trying to make up for the fact that they do NOT have a super-car type like the ZR1/CTS-V (yes, I realize the CTS-V is more ZL1 territory and not quite AMG) so they have to spice up their Mustang and try to make it span what is best served by more than one model (like something higher end with IRS, more chassi technology, etc). The main way that american automakers keep shooting themselves in the foot is they always think that they have to make these retro-models and they they have to "carry over" heritage from the models before. Yes, it can be a little shocking to see a design that has changed, but IF the car is adequately designed and performs as expected, it does NOT have to look like or have the same name as the previous car. I'm not saying they should just "throw away" a name of a line like "mustang" or "camaro", but they also constrain themselves way too much, which in the end is where you get all the "WTF were they thinking?" and "why on earth did they do that?". Again, it's not that they can't keep some of the same lines and ideas, but it's so easy to go astray. The ZR1 looks like crap with all the "extra vents", it's not a bad car, but a basic vette looks better.

The camaro may have the Cd of a brick, but at least it's low-slung and looks like a sportscar. I don't care for the stupid fish-gills in the rear, smooth panels would be more to my taste, but I think it stands on it's own much better otherwise as it's own design.

dude, i said muscle car, not super car

[DaBears]

I think the main reason you see a lot of mustang and chellenger fans on this website is because it is put together and run so well. None of the mustang or dodge forums ive been on are this well set up.

The main reason im here is because im a fan of the Big 3 and i love talking about what Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger are doing. I would take any of these cars but that does not mean any particular one is so much better than the other.

At this point, all 3 of these cars are so well made that anyone saying they think its a POS is just fooling themselves.

[TheReaper]

I'm here because I like muscle cars and my car of choice at this time is a Mustang. I keep up with the Camaro because I might buy one in the near future.

[nester7929]

Nothing wrong with liking all three cars. That being said, I'll still voice my opinion if I think one brand is doing something better than the other brand. Sometimes that means I think the Mustang does something better than the Camaro, other times that means I think the Challenger is doing something better than the Mustang. Simply put, sometimes people around here will have an unpopular opinion, and it wouldn't kill people to not get butthurt over it.

[coolman]

Looks are subjective and just because you say one looks better than the other doesn't make it fact. But time will tell if the 2013 GT500 will out preform the ZL1. What everyone that argues in these types of forums don't get ,is that we haven't seen what GM is going to do to improve the ZL1 for 2013. Who knows it might have major improvements or it will already beat the 2013 GT500 and won't need any. Personal I believe that no matter what side of the fence you're on here, if you don't give them both credit for what they are ;well then your not really a car guy at all.

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by nester7929

Nothing wrong with liking all three cars. That being said, I'll still voice my opinion if I think one brand is doing something better than the other brand. Sometimes that means I think the Mustang does something better than the Camaro, other times that means I think the Challenger is doing something better than the Mustang. Simply put, sometimes people around here will have an unpopular opinion, and it wouldn't kill people to not get butthurt over it.

exactly. people on here get all bent ouf of shape if you say anything bad about GM or Camaro. Get over it, as long as its a respectable debate without any name calling or bad language it should be welcome discussion just like as if you were sitting at a bar and talking to someone.

[eolson]

Was this thread originally about the GT500's rear grip. This forum seems to wander a lot from thread content. Erik

[eric n]

Looks are ENTIRELY subjective. Both the Mustang and Camaro are great looking muscle cars hearkening back to their past. It's a stretch to say, "most people or more people" as we don't have those stats.

Personally i find the challenger to be the best looking of the current run. The least desirable for me, but best looking.

[WadeWilson]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Apparently Evan Smith had an opportunity to check out the 2013 GT500 and wrote the following about it...



While time will tell if it actually translates into the new GT500 getting it's power to the ground, it sure sounds like the new suspension/electronic controls Ford is putting in place are going to make a significant difference.

I'm not surprised in the least. I'm excited to see both the new GT500 and ZL1 go head to head.

Originally Posted by huggercamaro21

It will probably be a better performer. As is the 5.0 to the SS. However, the Camaro does look a whole lot better

Yes it probably will be, and as others have stated, looks are subjective. I love the Camaro and I think it looks better than the 5.0, but I'd choose the GT500 over the ZL1 any day for both looks and performance.

Originally Posted by tooslow

Sorry I created the thread. Instead of discussing the upgrades SVT has made to the GT500 in the area of getting it's power to the ground, it quickly degenerated in into yet another tired discussion of aesthetic appeal and/or preference. Thanks for mucking up the thread everyone.

[SSBUSDRVR]

Looks are subjective. You can have 9 million people tell you how ugly your car is, but if you like it and are the only one that likes it, that's all that will matter.

Right. Like the Porsche Panamera Owner's Club for example.

[eolson]

Speaking of which, what's the deal with that mid sized Pontiac with the giant bat mobile boomerang rear spoiler. When I first saw it from a distance, I thought the driver had left their trunk open. What an ugly freakin' car. Erik