Does it even matter?

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by jandaseve

I dont understand why people would even want to go on a muscle car forum to talk about imports, and then get upset because the residents arent enthused by the other cars. Isnt there forums for those cars? Maybe ricearoni.com or something?

x 2000000.

Forgive me if I display a complete lack of interest towards anything with an Asian manufacturer's badge on it. It's not like I'm on a enthusiast site for a GM product or anything.

I don't understand why people waste their lives relentlessly defending (insert competing brand here) here.

If they don't like it, the door is right there.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

x 2000000.

Forgive me if I display a complete lack of interest towards anything with an Asian manufacturer's badge on it. It's not like I'm on a enthusiast site for a GM product or anything.

I don't understand why people waste their lives relentlessly defending (insert competing brand here) here.

If they don't like it, the door is right there.

Have you read your user title?

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Ah, is it only majority ownership by a domestic entity that you consider makes an American company? What if a car company is partially owned by foreign investors? Or what if a foreign company's largest shareholder is an American company? You can't apply such basic, narrow thinking to publicly traded transnational corporations. It simply doesn't work that way. I think you'd be surprised to find where some of the beneficial owners (over 10%) of GM are located. . . I'll give you a hint:

Just something to think about

I'm guessing you dislike how GNP (GNI) is computed.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I'm guessing you dislike how GNP (GNI) is computed.

Not at all, but I dislike what some consider the implications of GNP and what contributes to it. Neither GNP nor GDP are the end all of economic activity or benefit within the United States or any other country, BUT there is a reason we and almost every other country have benchmarked GDP rather than GNP since 1991. However, both only tell part of the story.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Ah, is it only majority ownership by a domestic entity that you consider makes an American company? What if a car company is partially owned by foreign investors? Or what if a foreign company's largest shareholder is an American company? You can't apply such basic, narrow thinking to publicly traded transnational corporations. It simply doesn't work that way. I think you'd be surprised to find where some of the beneficial owners (over 10%) of GM are located. . . I'll give you a hint:



Just something to think about

LOL, was kind of with you until you said "basic, narrow thinking".

It's who controls the money and it is that simple.

No I wouldn't be surprised at all who owns big chunks of GM. GM is owed by many Germans, Chinese, Koreans etc. through many joint ventures and legal stock purchases by investors, institutional and individual alike. There are even some joint ventures in Russia that seem to have less that reputible owners. But for now, the control remains here.

Chrysler is mostly or majority owned by Fiat. The control of the money is not here.

I can say with a great deal of certainty that most Opel employees will tell you that they are not an American company. Many posters on the walls in and even in offices stating this fact............errr opinion. But the Germans do not dictate the transfer of money for GM as much as they might like to. Influence? Yes. Decision making? No.

Some believe it is where the workers are but I've always maintained it's who controls the money, that's who determines where the plants are, and who determines which region gets the work.

Doesn't have to be complicated unless you want it to be.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Have you read your user title?

I wasn't aware GM was a competing brand.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Not at all, but I dislike what some consider the implications of GNP and what contributes to it. Neither GNP nor GDP are the end all of economic activity or benefit within the United States or any other country, BUT there is a reason we and almost every other country have benchmarked GDP rather than GNP since 1991. However, both only tell part of the story.

Ah, I just misread your last post. Actually, could you clarify as to what defines a company being classified as "American?" From what you implied, it would have to be that the permanent place of residency of all shareholders are the same. E.g., for one to be simply an "American" or "German" firm would require all shareholders to be permanent residents of the United States or Germany, respectively. This means that when a shareholder buys stock in a publicly traded company, it is elevated to "multinational" or even "global" company.

You know my position on economic statistics.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I wasn't aware GM was a competing brand.

I took it as a more general jab at being a fanboy; that's what I was referring to. However, if you meant it in regards to trolls, then I'm in complete agreement.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I took it as a more general jab at being a fanboy; that's what I was referring to. However, if you meant it in regards to trolls, then I'm in complete agreement.

I mean it in regards to trolls.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Number 3

LOL, was kind of with you until you said "basic, narrow thinking".

It's who controls the money and it is that simple.

No I wouldn't be surprised at all who owns big chunks of GM. GM is owed by many Germans, Chinese, Koreans etc. through many joint ventures and legal stock purchases by investors, institutional and individual alike. There are even some joint ventures in Russia that seem to have less that reputible owners. But for now, the control remains here.

Chrysler is mostly or majority owned by Fiat. The control of the money is not here.

Some believe it is where the workers are but I've always maintained it's who controls the money, that's who determines where the plants are, and who determines which region gets the work.

Doesn't have to be complicated unless you want it to be.

What happens when the individuals that, "control the money" hold majority in a company that is based in the United States, but they live outside of the United States themselves? How do you determine where the control of the money is when the control of the money is in the hands of individuals, not a nation itself? GNI/GNP includes citizens that live abroad, so if majority ownership of a company is held by an American citizen that lives in Tokyo, do you consider that an "American company?" What if a company is based in Germany, does most of it's business in Germany, and employs mostly German citizens, but is majority owned by an individual or group of individuals that reside in and are citizens of the United States? If Chrysler's profitability has a greater positive impact on the United States than any other country (GDP) then why consider them not American? Because the billionaire family with majority stake in Italy sees worth increases rather than a billionaire family here? If that money is being reinvested in a company that produces products here, sells the majority of their products here, and employs the majority of their workforce here, why would you be against buying a product from them or not consider them American? The reason I say it is not that simple is because it is not that simple. GM is a special and complex case because of federal ownership, but for the most part nationality and geographical location of majority ownership does not dictate economic benefit. Like I said before, there's a reason we benchmark GDP and no longer GNP.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Ah, I just misread your last post. Actually, could you clarify as to what defines a company being classified as "American?" From what you implied, it would have to be that the permanent place of residency of all shareholders are the same. E.g., for one to be simply an "American" or "German" firm would require all shareholders to be permanent residents of the United States or Germany, respectively. This means that when a shareholder buys stock in a publicly traded company, it is elevated to "multinational" or even "global" company.

You know my position on economic statistics.

That's not at all what I implied. Just because I disagree with something does not mean I believe the complete opposite. What I am implying is that no publicly traded transnational corporation is JUST American or JUST ______ and if you want to speak in terms of economic benefit the line because much more hazy. That's why I said it's not that simple. I do not mean to imply that any one company is more or less American than any other based on geographic location of the majority owner(s), in fact that idea conflicts with my point.

[bill2129]

Yes it matters depends on the car though. Honda's all that can have there 4cyl. The 350z and many others can have there v6. But if you get a camaro it best be a v8! Or should of got a hyundai. Same with the mustangs. I think a v6 camaro is okay for a girl. But if your a guy and buy a v6 camaro your no better then the guys who buy the pony package mustang. (The v6)

[Dukes117]

Originally Posted by bill2129

Yes it matters depends on the car though. Honda's all that can have there 4cyl. The 350z and many others can have there v6. But if you get a camaro it best be a v8! Or should of got a hyundai. Same with the mustangs. I think a v6 camaro is okay for a girl. But if your a guy and buy a v6 camaro your no better then the guys who buy the pony package mustang. (The v6)

I respect you for calling it as you see it, but just be ready for a shit storm. Lol

[scrming]

Originally Posted by bill2129

Yes it matters depends on the car though. Honda's all that can have there 4cyl. The 350z and many others can have there v6. But if you get a camaro it best be a v8! Or should of got a hyundai. Same with the mustangs. I think a v6 camaro is okay for a girl. But if your a guy and buy a v6 camaro your no better then the guys who buy the pony package mustang. (The v6)

But you're going to get an AUTOMATIC? I thought those were for girls too?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=12