Updated CAFE Standards

[Berean]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If GM didn't kill the Corvette or V8s when CAFE standards were first introduced, what makes you think it will be killed when they're raised?

I don't think they'll kill it, but it will likely continue down the path of becoming a car that only the rich can afford, and will continue to be built in smaller and smaller numbers.

It's already pretty much there now, which is a far cry from the 60's and 70's when they made 40k a year and middle class people could afford to buy one if they wanted.

[8cd03gro]

Cars are going to have to start getting lighter as a whole to meet these standards. That's why I'm investing in carbon fiber manufacturers

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Cars are going to have to start getting lighter as a whole to meet these standards. That's why I'm investing in carbon fiber manufacturers

You think manufacturers can afford to put Carbon fiber components on mainstream cars? (Not an attack...curious on your thought process)

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Cars are going to have to start getting lighter as a whole to meet these standards. That's why I'm investing in carbon fiber manufacturers

Its your money but ... carbon fibre has a ton of manufacturing problems associated with it. And not just because it has to be done by hand. You can't get the fitment from plastics that you can with metal. The shapes it can be formed into are far more restrictive. Plus, the gains vs fibreglass aren't all that impressive.

In my opinion, aluminum will be used much more widely than either FG or CF, but even then there are some ultra high strength steels that are beginning to rival the strength to weight ratio of typical aluminum alloys, while maintaining the work-ability of steel.

Again ... its your money but ...

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Its your money but ... carbon fibre has a ton of manufacturing problems associated with it. And not just because it has to be done by hand. You can't get the fitment from plastics that you can with metal. The shapes it can be formed into are far more restrictive. Plus, the gains vs fibreglass aren't all that impressive.

In my opinion, aluminum will be used much more widely than either FG or CF, but even then there are some ultra high strength steels that are beginning to rival the strength to weight ratio of typical aluminum alloys, while maintaining the work-ability of steel.

Again ... its your money but ...

Aluminum can't touch the strength/weight of carbon fiber. As far as gains vs fiberglass. . . how about in drivetrain, suspension, braking, etc. components made from carbon reinforced polymers? These components can be made through vacuum infusion rather than being hand-layed, offer strength far beyond fiberglass and weight-per-strength far below steel of any kind. Filament winding is better for complex shapes, but vacuum infusion is how mass-produced components are more likely to be made as more complex components are likely to be made of different, cheaper materials. Multiple manufacturers are working on cheaper polyacrylonitrile precursors to lower cost to desirable levels for the automotive industry.

Look how far down the food chain carbon fiber incorporation has moved in the automotive world. It started with racing, moved into high end exotics, then less exotic sports cars, now you see it being used in components on far cheaper vehicles like the nissan z cars, which use a carbon composite driveshaft from the factory. BMW, Mercedes, GM, Ford, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Nissan/Inifiniti, etc. are all using carbon fiber now in SOME components. As demand increases, price will decrease and carbon fiber reinforced polymers will continue to move down the food chain into cheaper and cheaper vehicles produced in larger numbers.

I'm not betting on carbon fiber replacing any material for all intents and purposes, but rather that carbon fiber reinforced polymers will continue to be implemented in more and more consumer vehicles every year, which in turn will decrease costs as it has over the past decade. There's so much room to grow for these manufacturers, but little chance they're going to lose much market share in the near future. It's not a question of whether or not other materials are more likely to be used in X application, but whether carbon fiber is likely to be used more often in the automotive industry than it is now. Outlook is very positive imo.

Just an example:
http://electric-vehicles-cars-bikes....bon-fiber.html

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/06/auto...tune/index.htm


There are many more at recent auto shows, in recent vehicles and in upcoming vehicles.