BoB Lutz just on MSNBC saying we should pay $7.50 gal for gas.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by 14pilot

The cost of gas is currently $3.499 a gallon. About $1.68 of that is Federal Taxes... ARGH. So the true cost of a gallon of gas would only be $1.82, if our Federal Government would get the hell out of the gasoline business.... Seeesh!!!

The evil oil company makes about a 3% profit off of gasoline sales, so their profit on a gallon of gas is roughly 5 cents. Compare that 5 cents to the $1.68 the Feds make. Now, I ask who is in the gasoline business ?

Where did you get your numbers?? the Federal gas tax is only .18 cents..


Hmmmm... Reading through this thread, there is alot of Koolaid and mis-information going on here.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Wait, what? These countries you speak of also had retirement pensions that you could get at like 55 and all kinds of other crazy entitlements that we Americans would dream of having.....and look at where a lot of those countries are right now. In the toilet financially because they can't support it anymore.

Plus, most of the countries you are talking about are the size of Indiana....which you could drive across in about 6 hours. Most Americans drive an hour or more a day in traffic that dwarfs most of what Europe deals with.

Add to that, the most important aspect, public transportation. Most of those countries have top notch public transportation options that are almost exclusively used when possible. They also have fewer roads, smaller roads, and driving more than 20 min away from most cities in Europe will get you nothing but farmland until you come to another major city. (not entirely 100% accurate, but it's nothing like living in the states)

I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but it's easy to go oh well we've had it sooo easy thus far.... in truth...your only looking at one side.




I'm sorry, but this just makes me laugh.

To start, increasing taxes while NOT increasing efficiency is a joke. People will always drive more if they can afford it, but if you are getting 40mpg as opposed to 15mpg, why wouldnt you?

Example: I need a truck to do my business, not because I want one, because I need it to haul heavy items. If we only get 8mpg, I'm screwed. The companies producing the trucks make zero effort to improve it. However, once the government started really pushing the issue, all of a sudden we now have trucks getting 20-23mpg in a full size truck.

I'm all for free market, but I also think taxes aren't the answer. The answer should be to try to balance the two. We all know that the car companies aren't making the best efforts to produce fuel efficient cars as they could have. Look at the diesel engine. You can buy countless cars in Europe and Asia that are getting 45+mpgs real world but you can't even buy them here in the USA.

Your just cutting your nose off to spite your face...

I have to respectfully dis-agree, They have been, its just that for so long gas has been cheap and demand for 40+mpg was not the highest priority for consumers. In 2008 when gas shot up to $5 a gallon over night, demand for fuel efficient cars shot up faster than the market could respond. (thats not the case today though) Theres no need to artificially raise gas prices like in europe where they effectively tax people to go to work. China alone is going to consume more oil than USA, Europe combined sooner or later and thats not counting india or other developing nations. So Gas prices are going to go up no matter what and gradualy, thus consumer demands and the market will respond accordingly.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by TOMS1SS

Someone believes in conspiracies.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws."

“I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil"

Now, find out who is responsible for each of those quotes.

It's always about money and the Fed is the one running the show.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by truth411

I have to respectfully dis-agree, They have been, its just that for so long gas has been cheap and demand for 40+mpg was not the highest priority for consumers. In 2008 when gas shot up to $5 a gallon over night, demand for fuel efficient cars shot up faster than the market could respond. (thats not the case today though) Theres no need to artificially raise gas prices like in europe where they effectively tax people to go to work. China alone is going to consume more oil than USA, Europe combined sooner or later and thats not counting india or other developing nations. So Gas prices are going to go up no matter what and gradualy, thus consumer demands and the market will respond accordingly.

I have to say that you are indeed in the wrong here. Jump on countless sites that are home to truck owners, and most have been begging for more fuel efficient vehicles. I know, I used to own 2 trucks and be an admin for a dodge site. People wanted more efficient vehicles even 10-15 years ago. The problem is the regulations here in the USA.

Trust me, a small sized diesel in a midsize pickup would generate 28-30mpg easily, and still get the same utility out of a vehicle now struggling to get 16mpg. The same goes for the full size trucks. Look at the Ecoboost V6 in the Ford F150. That motor gets like 10hp less than the V8 but virtually the same performance and just slightly better HP....all at a cheaper price...The bottom line is that there are tons of options that could have been used and werent. People would buy it because that's all that was there. If you made it available, more people would be inclined to buy it. The problem right now is the only options for diesels are in cars the size of a VW Golf or Jetta....and it's not big enough for a family of 6.

And before you disagree....look at Europe. Almost every one of their vehicles has some sort of diesel option, and most get as good or better fuel economy as their gasoline counterpart.

[hot_rod]

>>>>>"I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil"

Mr. Bubble himself........

After the melt down he told congress"....and what I'm saying to you is, yes, I found a flaw. I don't know how significant or permanent it is, but I've been very distressed by that fact."

Well gee, we are still reeling from your flaw and some say it will take decades to come out of it.

Sorry for your distress , I guess you feel our pain.

Anybody feel better now?

To ya.....

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws."

“I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil"

Now, find out who is responsible for each of those quotes.

It's always about money and the Fed is the one running the show.

Colonel Mustard?

[PonyMan]

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

Government has to intervene in our lives, most people are too stupid to police themselves.

You sound like a couple of PINK-O College Professor's I had!! No thanks, I seem to do a lot better when the Government keeps their hands out of my pockets!!!

Sorry! But the U.S. does not have near the O&G reserves that OPEC has...it is a matter of "they have it, we don't and what will we pay to get it". Bend over America, OPEC is pumping this Goat!!!

[CamaroSkooter]

So, do automotive executives just enjoy the taste of their feet, or what?

[truth411]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I have to say that you are indeed in the wrong here. Jump on countless sites that are home to truck owners, and most have been begging for more fuel efficient vehicles. I know, I used to own 2 trucks and be an admin for a dodge site. People wanted more efficient vehicles even 10-15 years ago. The problem is the regulations here in the USA.

Trust me, a small sized diesel in a midsize pickup would generate 28-30mpg easily, and still get the same utility out of a vehicle now struggling to get 16mpg. The same goes for the full size trucks. Look at the Ecoboost V6 in the Ford F150. That motor gets like 10hp less than the V8 but virtually the same performance and just slightly better HP....all at a cheaper price...The bottom line is that there are tons of options that could have been used and werent. People would buy it because that's all that was there. If you made it available, more people would be inclined to buy it. The problem right now is the only options for diesels are in cars the size of a VW Golf or Jetta....and it's not big enough for a family of 6.

And before you disagree....look at Europe. Almost every one of their vehicles has some sort of diesel option, and most get as good or better fuel economy as their gasoline counterpart.

Yea were going to have to agree to dis-agree but a couple of points.

A. Of course diesel gets more mileage than its petrol counter parts, But USA emission standards + diesel engines being more expensive than there gas counter parts means you won't be saving any money whatsoever. You just pay alot more upfront.

B. What Midsize truck gets 16mpg??? I think you made that up.

C. The Ecoboost in the F150 is a good motor but not cheap, IMVHO GM's Gen V v8 with 8spd auto will probaly have it beat.

D. The problem is not regulations, Regulations don't dictated consumer demands!! It is no coincidence that demand for SUV's Drop off a cliff when Gas prices shot up in 2008. When they went back down SUV sales shot back up. As Bob Lutz says " You can't get the american people to loose weight by regulating cloth manufactuers to only make small cloths with a 30" waist seam." (something like that.) Since gas prices is only going to go Higher, Demand for fuel efficent vehicles will higher with it, thats undisputable. I'm Just saying there is no need to artificaly inflate it with taxes, its going to go up no matter what.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by porcupinekiller

Yeah..No kidding!! Lol
The problem is that as China starts to consume more fuel the rest of the world will have to pay.
We're already seeing that happen.

YEA!!! How dare the Chinese people stop riding bicycles and start driving cars !!! Who do they think they are!!!

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Colonel Mustard?

-Mayer Amschel Rothschild

-Alan Greenspan

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Problem is your CURRENT taxes are over a $1/gallon. So your plan would require drilling and eliminating the gas taxes as well. Just sayin'...........but even $2 would be ok. But to get the amount of oil from our resources requires shale. Shale last I checked requires 3 times the processing that the Jed Clampett oil does (shoot at some food up comes some bubbling crude, cheap a$$ oil). Even the Canadien tar sands require one extra step of processing/refining.



You mean like in most of the other products every day? A lot of farm and crop subsidies are already well ingrained in the prices we pay for food. But if your point is take ALL subsidies away, I'm with you. Just be prepared to be buying food from South America and end the last of the family farms.............which is I think why those subsidies won't go away.

Read an article today that suggested the impact of the 2025 CAFE standard will cost anywhere from $3,500 to almost $10,000 per vehicle. The article aslo suggested that at even $6/gallon, these technology improvements would not pay for themselves.

So you can pay a tax to the government or you can pay a mandated extra up front fee for your vehicle. If it is a gas tax, you can at least choose of your own free will how much you drive. But with CAFE you will pay regardless of how much you drive up front. The article also goes on to suggest that these added costs will cut nearly 5 million vehicles from the annual vehicle sales and cost upwards of 200,000 jobs. Not buying or selling. The article also quotes those that claim all this technology will magically be free by the time we need it.

Spreading flase information like that doesn't help at all. It's not even close to 1$ a gallon. And I'll take our Michigan rate which is one of the highest taxing states in the union on gasoline. The current tax per gallon as of right now today is .512614/gallon.

Breakdown as follows.
FET 10% Alcohol credit: -.045000
FED OIL Spil: .001714
FET: .184000
MI SET: .187150
MI Env Fee: .008750
MI Ppd SLT: .176000

That's how much tax you pay per gallon in michigan as of today on all grades.

[kbui]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

So, do automotive executives just enjoy the taste of their feet, or what?

Ex-automotive exe
Still very much a car guy, but his age is getting the better of him. I am heading up to Ann Arbor next week. Maybe I will stop by and give him a kick in a behind for opening his mouth...JK

[2ndgenz28]

Originally Posted by kbui

Ex-automotive exe
Still very much a car guy, but his age is getting the better of him. I am heading up to Ann Arbor next week. Maybe I will stop by and give him a kick in a behind for opening his mouth...JK

Sue we can take up a collection for bail money