BoB Lutz just on MSNBC saying we should pay $7.50 gal for gas.

[TOMS1SS]

Originally Posted by cleanwhiteSS

I don't think anyone should accept socialism.

The ironic thing is that socialism has accepted some of our values and become socialism lite. Look at China, did anyone really think 20 years ago you'd ever see a Buick in Shanghi?

[camarowa]

Originally Posted by 2ndgenz28

Umm the US would of never became as great as it is, if we did like the rest of the world, and neither will we stay that way if we follow in their foot steps.

That side of the world is full of morons, and has been since day one.

Why it only tooks us 200 years to surpass what they had done since the dawn of time.

Good joke, should have paid attention during your history classes bud.

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by TOMS1SS

The ironic thing is that socialism has accepted some of our values and become socialism lite. Look at China, did anyone really think 20 years ago you'd ever a Buick in Shanghi?:sm0:

Yeah..No kidding!! Lol
The problem is that as China starts to consume more fuel the rest of the world will have to pay.
We're already seeing that happen.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by cleanwhiteSS

Why are you watching MSNBC? Garbage IMO.

QFT

Only good thing he said was do it over time. 25 cents a year instead of all at once. Still problem is most of the people advocating small cars don't have it in their minds that they don't work for families with 3+ kids.

[2ndgenz28]

Originally Posted by camarowa

Good joke, should have paid attention during your history classes bud.

Words of wizdom from "a free loading Canadian"

[TOMS1SS]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

QFT

Only good thing he said was do it over time. 25 cents a year instead of all at once. Still problem is most of the people advocating small cars don't have it in their minds that they don't work for families with 3+ kids.

When my brother, sister and I were kinds we sit perfectly fine into the K-car with Dad driving and mom in the passenger seat. We didn't have on-board video entertainment either.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by TOMS1SS

Rest of the world does....like it or not there are forces at work edging us that way.

Wait, what? These countries you speak of also had retirement pensions that you could get at like 55 and all kinds of other crazy entitlements that we Americans would dream of having.....and look at where a lot of those countries are right now. In the toilet financially because they can't support it anymore.

Plus, most of the countries you are talking about are the size of Indiana....which you could drive across in about 6 hours. Most Americans drive an hour or more a day in traffic that dwarfs most of what Europe deals with.

Add to that, the most important aspect, public transportation. Most of those countries have top notch public transportation options that are almost exclusively used when possible. They also have fewer roads, smaller roads, and driving more than 20 min away from most cities in Europe will get you nothing but farmland until you come to another major city. (not entirely 100% accurate, but it's nothing like living in the states)

I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but it's easy to go oh well we've had it sooo easy thus far.... in truth...your only looking at one side.

Originally Posted by z28camaro2471

As much as I hate to admit this, raising taxes on gasoline is in many ways a better alternative than Federally mandated MPGs. Follow along if you will.

Federally mandated MPGs, while in theory also reducing consumption in a similar manner, have historically just increased consumption as consumers just drive more given that they can go further on a tank of gas. Urban sprawl is alive and well my friends. Furthermore, it forces the manufacturers to make vehicles we don't want to buy. I'm sure the Sonic is a great car for its segment, but it will never appeal to me.

I'm sorry, but this just makes me laugh.

To start, increasing taxes while NOT increasing efficiency is a joke. People will always drive more if they can afford it, but if you are getting 40mpg as opposed to 15mpg, why wouldnt you?

Example: I need a truck to do my business, not because I want one, because I need it to haul heavy items. If we only get 8mpg, I'm screwed. The companies producing the trucks make zero effort to improve it. However, once the government started really pushing the issue, all of a sudden we now have trucks getting 20-23mpg in a full size truck.

I'm all for free market, but I also think taxes aren't the answer. The answer should be to try to balance the two. We all know that the car companies aren't making the best efforts to produce fuel efficient cars as they could have. Look at the diesel engine. You can buy countless cars in Europe and Asia that are getting 45+mpgs real world but you can't even buy them here in the USA.

Your just cutting your nose off to spite your face...

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by porcupinekiller

Yeah..No kidding!! Lol
The problem is that as China starts to consume more fuel the rest of the world will have to pay.
We're already seeing that happen.

I disagree with this. We're seeing it right now too with all the "speculation". There's plenty of fuel on the market, but people are creating this "bubble" that's pushing the prices higher than even supply/demand are telling you it should be.....

It's ironic too...because about 2 weeks ago there was a big hullabaloo in the news about the oil prices/speculation.......and prices were like $4.10 a gallon average.....

It's now $3.55 here.... and nothings changed other than that news story really...

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by TOMS1SS

There is a simple answer to both, vote the people pushing this stuff out of office. Sadly most people, especially the young can't even be bothered to go to the polls. By and large most Americans can't control their spending habits anymore and that's a sad thing to see when it comes to cars. Most people buy vehicles that they don't need like trucks and SUVs even though they can barely afford the payments must less the fuel that goes in them. As a consequence the legislation we're seeing on CAFE is designed to control what the bulk of can't, our choice of vehicle. I don't think we'll see the same gas prices as the rest of the world for a long time if ever because the way CAFE is going it will be almost impossible for any automaker to produce a affordable performance car. If you look back at the 70s and the events that led to emissions controls, safety regulations and high gas prices are starting to repeat themselves. If you got a Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, Corvette or other performance car take car of it now because in my opinion we're about enter the second dark age in automotive history.

Sadly, the people really running this country are here



Not here



Vote all you want, it's never going to change a thing.

[TOMS1SS]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Sadly, the people really running this country are here



Not here



Vote all you want, it's never going to change a thing.

Someone believes in conspiracies.

[ffrcobra_65]

I say we ship the tree huggers out of this country to iceland so we can start drilling the massive amount of oil we have here and we pay $1/gallon.

[kbui]

Originally Posted by TOMS1SS

...... By and large most Americans can't control their spending habits anymore and that's a sad thing to see when it comes to cars. Most people buy vehicles that they don't need like trucks and SUVs even though they can barely afford the payments must less the fuel that goes in them. As a consequence the legislation we're seeing on CAFE is designed to control what the bulk of can't, our choice of vehicle.... .

This is what I and most Americans should have a problem with. Just because there are individuals who can't think for themselves or manage their lives, the government should tell ALL of us how to live and what's good for us?

[kbui]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

QFT

Only good thing he said was do it over time. 25 cents a year instead of all at once. Still problem is most of the people advocating small cars don't have it in their minds that they don't work for families with 3+ kids.

Prices would probably be increasing with time anyway. Why should the government even be involved in setting prices?

[TOMS1SS]

Originally Posted by kbui

This is what I and most Americans should have a problem with. Just because there are individuals who can't think for themselves or manage their lives, the government should tell ALL of us how to live and what's good for us?

Someone has to, or at least that's the American mentality. Seriously when I took my current job I knew my annual commute was going to be between 50,000 to 60,000 miles a year. Using my Camaro for such a task would have just been a waste of money, so I decided to get a more economical vehicle to offset the high fuel costs. Most people hide behind excuses like "my family is too big for a car" and "I'm an American I should drive whatever I want even if I can't afford it."

The question is what do you do when people can't take care of themselves anyone or make the right financial choices? Ideally I'd say let them crash and burn but we aren't a society for good or bad that lets that happen. Look at all the drugged up freeloaders who are on wellfare and foodstamps who refuse to get a job. You think the latest economic downturn would have made people think twice about what they do about money, but it hasn't and thus we see government intervention.