The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[thePill]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

I'm not sure what the purpose of the camo on the GT500's pictured above is. It's not like this is a new bodystyle. As far as I can tell in the pictures, it's exactly the same as the 2011/12 GT500.

These GT500's in particular were camo'd to attract attention, the complete opposite of what camo is intended to do. These no doubt will be the mules that do receive exterior updates so might as well camo the car entirely. Ford beats the hell out of their mules, I don't know if you seen the supposed TT 5.0 mule in October (see below)





No glamor shots here... Dirty, pieces missing and interior gutted...

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

That's my whole problem with this thread. How do you know what we need. This is still an uncomfirmed rumor and neither is close to hitting the streets yet. How do we have any numbers to compare or even know how close they will be?
It's worse than bench racing, because people are just making up numbers.

You really think the 600+ from Ford is BS? Really?
Then we disagree...
We, When I say We I mean GM...
We kicked Ford in the nuts in 2010 with the Ls3 and ford is still pissed I'm sure.
They will do ANTHING to rain on our parade with the ZL1.
600+ for the ford, you can take that to the bank!!
-bobby

[thePill]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

That's my whole problem with this thread. How do you know what we need. This is still an uncomfirmed rumor and neither is close to hitting the streets yet. How do we have any numbers to compare or even know how close they will be?
It's worse than bench racing, because people are just making up numbers.

Come on man, confirmed or not, we can do some mathematic engineering and figure things out ourselves. Do you think engineer's just grab a block of steel and start cutting and hammering it into the shape they want?

1. My numbers come from either GM or Ford and are always open for correction.

2. Bench racing or as engineers would call it "engineering" starts on paper with NO physical shape. It usually is a mass bench race, this is called brain storming and trouble shooting.

If I had a guy on the team that stood up and said " This isn't confirmed, we don't know anything.. Its like we are just making up numbers"... I would tell him to get out of my office...

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

You really think the 600+ from Ford is BS? Really?
Then we disagree...
We, When I say We I mean GM...
We kicked Ford in the nuts in 2010 with the Ls3 and ford is still pissed I'm sure.
They will do ANTHING to rain on our parade with the ZL1.
600+ for the ford, you can take that to the bank!!
-bobby

Originally Posted by thePill

Come on man, confirmed or not, we can do some mathematic engineering and figure things out ourselves. Do you think engineer's just grab a block of steel and start cutting and hammering it into the shape they want?

1. My numbers come from either GM or Ford and are always open for correction.

2. Bench racing or as engineers would call it "engineering" starts on paper with NO physical shape. It usually is a mass bench race, this is called brain storming and trouble shooting.

If I had a guy on the team that stood up and said " This isn't confirmed, we don't know anything.. Its like we are just making up numbers"... I would tell him to get out of my office...

Sorry, I just don't think we should even be having this conversation until we have concrete data from at least one or both sides.
600+ could mean 600, or 601, or 699.
Similar to CTS-V could mean 500, 556, 560, 599 etc...
We have no idea how the MRS will react in the Camaro, or if the Camaro team tweaked it just for this car.
We have no idea how much the ZL1 weighs.

We also have no idea if Ford is changing the Mustang drivetrain in any way, or if they have some new technology coming with this, that will blow everyone away.


Speculation + Speculation = nothing but opinions and rumors

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Speculation + Speculation = nothing but opinions and rumors

Having been around this board for a long time, didn't it pretty much exist on just that for several years until the Gen5 was actually put into production and hit the streets?

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Having been around this board for a long time, didn't it pretty much exist on just that for several years until the Gen5 was actually put into production and hit the streets?

Yes, and how many of those rumors came true?
I'm willing to bet very few.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by pdari

not trying to be a smart-a$$ or incite anything but can someone please define "fanboy" for me? I read it 2-3 pages back and it seemed to flare up some folks.

It's Blind Consumerism.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Sorry, I just don't think we should even be having this conversation until we have concrete data from at least one or both sides.
600+ could mean 600, or 601, or 699.
Similar to CTS-V could mean 500, 556, 560, 599 etc...
We have no idea how the MRS will react in the Camaro, or if the Camaro team tweaked it just for this car.
We have no idea how much the ZL1 weighs.

We also have no idea if Ford is changing the Mustang drivetrain in any way, or if they have some new technology coming with this, that will blow everyone away.


Speculation + Speculation = nothing but opinions and rumors

If we wait, it could be too late... GM should plan for a 620hp SVT Mustang.

I would have hoped in all my hard research that you would have at least read my post on some of the above.

600+ could mean 600, or 601, or 699.
Similar to CTS-V could mean 500, 556, 560, 599 etc..

The Supercharged Coyote 5.8 in Australia produced 612hp with an old roots supercharger.. The TR6060 MG9 transmission will have issues above 560tq from the factory with warranty.

We have no idea how the MRS will react in the Camaro, or if the Camaro team tweaked it just for this car.

There are many road racing courses in the US that GM can hot lap and throw up some numbers. I know the Ring is important but it cost alot of money to run it there as well as ship it to run it. If the Ring times were jaw dropping the first run, we would have had some numbers shortly after.. But it seems like a test and tune.

We have no idea how much the ZL1 weighs.

No, we don't but collecting weight figures, looking at the brakes being used at the expected GVWR and seeing that GM wanted to use a transmission that was rated at 531tq (I believe 551 now) at a 4255lb vehicle weight tells me that it would be lighter than the CTS-V by about 100-150lbs because the brakes could handle a 5000 GVWR and GM could push more torque (and horsepower) through the transmission if the ZL1 weighs less than the rated TR6060 CTS-V.

That was hard for me to do and took awhile for me to do it... this is my hobby..

We also have no idea if Ford is changing the Mustang drivetrain in any way, or if they have some new technology coming with this, that will blow everyone away.

Again, no we don't... or didn't at least until I tried to bore a 5.4 to a 5.8 (actually 5.765) on paper. That led me to search for an alternate means to accomplish that. I found that Ford does indeed have a Coyote 5.8 that is TiVCT and DI ready where the 5.4 has neither of these and would be expensive to make it so. I have to actually credit two Camaro5 member redsap05 and syr74 for putting it in my head... now there are other "speculators" that are coming to the same conclusions.

Speculation + Speculation = nothing but opinions and rumors

True, but simple speculation would have never drawn me to any of the conclusions I posted above and I have learned alot of additional information and collected many knowledgeable sources in my journey... They could be wrong... I could be wrong... but the information I am drawing conclusions from are factual... Instead of being at each others throats or putting each other down.. Someone help me find a full spec sheet on the Tremec TR6060 MH3 the ZR1 uses Those spec's I am missing could dictate if an LS9 could be used in a ZL1 or not and if the MH3 could be used with the LSA and put the transmission dilemma to rest..

[htron50]

From another nearby post the GM supplier is announcing ALPHA contract for 2013 MY which, could mean shipments as early as July 2012 (?). If so, might we see Z/28 and new ZL1 MUCH EARLIER than one might expect? The 2012 ZL1 might just be The First and Last one on the Zeta platform! Hmmmm....



http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133815

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by htron50

From another nearby post the GM supplier is announcing ALPHA contract for 2013 MY which, could mean shipments as early as July 2012 (?). If so, might we see Z/28 and new ZL1 MUCH EARLIER than one might expect? The 2012 ZL1 might just be The First and Last one on the Zeta platform! Hmmmm....



http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133815

No. That doesn't mean the Alpha platform will debut in the Camaro. In fact, expect it to start testing about 2 years after that.

[radz28]

I don't recall two platforms, for the same car, running simulaneously...

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Did you bother reading any of my posts, (the serious ones) or are you just stuck on the fact that you think I insulted you? Read your post again. Your claim makes no sense. You're trying to push a fact as opinion. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but this entire thread is rediculous.

If you don't like the thead, move along....

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Horsepower is not everything. I doubt the Mustang will be as technologically advanced as the Camaro

Or join the speculation like you just did.....

[thePill]

Originally Posted by htron50

From another nearby post the GM supplier is announcing ALPHA contract for 2013 MY which, could mean shipments as early as July 2012 (?). If so, might we see Z/28 and new ZL1 MUCH EARLIER than one might expect? The 2012 ZL1 might just be The First and Last one on the Zeta platform! Hmmmm....

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133815

Although that would be awesome, the entire pony car market updated in the same year, GM still has to let the 5th Gen turn profit, a 3 year model run may not put them in the green to cover the R&D and initial cost of production. They want a good long run, but not too long that people lose interest.. 2015 will be close to 6 years and sales will surely reflect by then and profits will already been made. If GM continues to sell the 5th Gen at a 6-9k units a month until redesign they may not be as hasty to change, they could also do a mid-model refresh as well or introduce a new engine to overlap cost of the drivetrain and chassis upgrades. A Gen5 refresh and a GenV engine could push sales back up after 2012 for the remaining 2 MY's and provide a nice buffer and lessen the impact of cost on a total ground up new 2015 Camaro.. It would also let GM build the Camaro around the engine instead of the other way around.

Just a thought.

[C5RocksC5]

...............if u cant beat them, join them and get twice the enjoyment.............