Not Good, GM wants another 16 or is it 9 Billion to Survive.

[War Eagle]

GM should have gone Chapter 11 to start with. Now we are talking about spending a lot more tax payer money to save a Company with a book value of only 1.33 Billion as of today.

They would be OK in Chapter 11 and could come out stronger and not be hamstrung with the Dealer and UAW contracts.

I really want GM to make it but they just can't make the tough decisions to do what they need to do. GM has had years to make the right decisions and did not. Now with their back to the wall they still don't have the leadership to get it done. The only reason they even have a plan at all is because Congress made them put it together. What the heck have these guys been thinking and doing the past five years.

Hanging on to Pontiac with two models is not cost effective, they need to go ahead and pull the plug on it, they eventually will have to anyway.

Dam, I am really looking foward to my SS Camaro and the drama is wearing a little thin.

Steve

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Their estimates for need for government aid in a chapter 11 scenario are up to $100bil. Basically the idea is that people won't buy cars from a company that's under bankruptcy protection. And I agree with that. Their sales will drop off a cliff until they're operating normally again. Normally a company that files bankruptcy would seek (and find) "debtor in posession" (often referred to as dip) financing but the way the credit market is and the massive sum of money that GM would need to make it through a bankruptcy simply make this impossible; only the government has the ability to fund that.

There's some ways of making ch. 11 work but it's all very ugly and would cost taxpayers much more than taking care of this without the courts.

So really the options at this point are denying all federal aid to GM and allowing them to go ch. 7 or giving them the pittance (in comparison to the banking handouts) they need to restructure without the courts' help.

Oh and how do you think the UAW would react when their contracts are shredded in bankruptcy court? I'll give you one guess and a hint... it rhymes with "strike."

A strike wouldn't last very long and there are other workers looking for jobs that would easily fill those that are on strike.. Have you looked at the unemployment numbers lately? Like I said, Chapter 11 would be costly at first, however look at what number we are at already..30 bill in less than 6 months. It will reach 100 bill in a year and half and more if the government keeps giving out handouts and printing money when the need arises gaining more control each time of the industry. Don't you see what is happening. Your intentions are good in supporting the bailout and all current GM employees or most will support it because it means keeping their jobs and salary. However in the long run it is only hurting all of American taxpayers. Chapter 11 may have been harder initially but in the end it would have been the right step to take in making the American car companies competitive again..

[UCF w00t]

Ugh. GM has made lots of tough decisions and would've been fine if car sales weren't at their lowest in 50yrs. I mean, where's oldsomobile? That debacle wasn't a tough decision? With the union laws and strong union lobbying that exists, what makes you think they would get a better contract through bankruptcy? Shoot, with the democrats in charge the union would OWN GM (figuratively).

It always has been and will remain to be a very long shot for GM to make it out of chapter 11. Noone will buy cars from them. They'll need tons of $$$$$ from somewhere to make it through that scenario. And they surely aren't getting private funding for that.

[jtaack]

Man....I just want to go be alone in my new Camaro and think about this on the open road....oh....wait....man, now I am really depressed!

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

GM should have gone Chapter 11 to start with. Now we are talking about spending a lot more tax payer money to save a Company with a book value of only 1.33 Billion as of today.

They would be OK in Chapter 11 and could come out stronger and not be hamstrung with the Dealer and UAW contracts.

I really want GM to make it but they just can't make the tough decisions to do what they need to do. GM has had years to make the right decisions and did not. Now with their back to the wall they still don't have the leadership to get it done. The only reason they even have a plan at all is because Congress made them put it together. What the heck have these guys been thinking and doing the past five years.

Hanging on to Pontiac with two models is not cost effective, they need to go ahead and pull the plug on it, they eventually will have to anyway.

Dam, I am really looking foward to my SS Camaro and the drama is wearing a little thin.

Steve

We Floridians sure have lots of common sense

Originally Posted by jtaack

Man....I just want to go be alone in my new Camaro and think about this on the open road....oh....wait....man, now I am really depressed!

It is easy to run away from problems and many of us do when the times get tough. My only advice is that hiding away doesn't solve any problems, it only makes things worse for everyone including yourself. Just be informed as to what your politicians are doing and if you don't like what they are doing or their policies are failing you get to vote them out of office when the time comes.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Ugh. GM has made lots of tough decisions and would've been fine if car sales weren't at their lowest in 50yrs. I mean, where's oldsomobile? That debacle wasn't a tough decision? With the union laws and strong union lobbying that exists, what makes you think they would get a better contract through bankruptcy? Shoot, with the democrats in charge the union would OWN GM (figuratively).

It always has been and will remain to be a very long shot for GM to make it out of chapter 11. Noone will buy cars from them. They'll need tons of $$$$$ from somewhere to make it through that scenario. And they surely aren't getting private funding for that.

Funny I have a friend from Great Britten and about 5 years ago we talked about the Union possible being the end of GM, because the Unions I guess doomed the GB auto industry from what he told me. I hope the UAW gets smart.

[UCF w00t]

And the thing that gets me is that people seem to think that the GM execs really care if they go into ch 11 or if they do it without. Ch 11 would be the easy way for sure. If they thought it was the best way for their company to survive, they would surely be supporting it 100%. It's not like they all get canned the minute they file. They care about two things... their paycheck and their legacy. These are men with large egos. They want to be written into the history books as the people that saved GM. Why don't people trust those who are closest to the situation (GM execs and federal governments) and have vested interest in a successful outcome?

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Supermans

We Floridians sure have lots of common sense

LOL. Then how do you explain me disagreeing with you two? I'm born and raised Florida boy.

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

Funny I have a friend from Great Britten and about 5 years ago we talked about the Union possible being the end of GM, because the Unions I guess doomed the GB auto industry from what he told me. I hope the UAW gets smart.

The UAW has been a problem for GM for decades.

[War Eagle]

I would buy an SS Camaro from GM if they were in Chapter 11. It would make no difference to me at all. Heck maybe we would get it sooner.

How many of you other guys would buy an SS with them in Chapter 11?

Steve

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

LOL. Then how do you explain me disagreeing with you two? I'm born and raised Florida boy.

The UAW has been a problem for GM for decades.

That what started are conversation went GM started showing sighs of big trouble 5+ years ago.

[t3chfr3ak]

What I dont understand is why have all these different sister companies. GMC, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Saturn, Saab, Holden, Vauxhall, Opel, Buick. Man thats just ridiculous! Honda, Toyota, Nissan only have one to seperate their luxury brand. I say get rid of all these divisions and make two. One GM, and another for luxury cars. And even combine Hummer with GMC and Chevy trucks. Its a waste of money to have all these different brand names.

[FAF]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

And the thing that gets me is that people seem to think that the GM execs really care if they go into ch 11 or if they do it without. Ch 11 would be the easy way for sure. If they thought it was the best way for their company to survive, they would surely be supporting it 100%. It's not like they all get canned the minute they file. They care about two things... their paycheck and their legacy. These are men with large egos. They want to be written into the history books as the people that saved GM.

You would think that GM would wnat to sell more cars instead of whining and crying. I had to visit 5 deales to order my camaro non of the dealer wanted to take an MSRP deal they all wanted to stiff the customer hell with GM.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I would buy an SS Camaro from GM if they were in Chapter 11. It would make no difference to me at all. Heck maybe we would get it sooner.

How many of you other guys would buy an SS with them in Chapter 11?

Steve

There was a poll on this a while back on here (just looked briefly and couldn't find it) but this audience is a horrible judge for this. We are all extremely biased being that we're enthusiasts. I posted this question a while back (when GM was initially asking for help) on a couple other forums, non-automative, that I frequent and the resounding answer was "no".

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by t3chfr3ak

What I dont understand is why have all these different sister companies. GMC, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Saturn, Saab, Holden, Vauxhall, Opel, Buick. Man thats just ridiculous! Honda, Toyota, Nissan only have one to seperate their luxury brand. I say get rid of all these divisions and make two. One GM, and another for luxury cars. And even combine Hummer with GMC and Chevy trucks. Its a waste of money to have all these different brand names.

That's the Billion dollar question