Not Good, GM wants another 16 or is it 9 Billion to Survive.

[kdbolt70]

Originally Posted by RT21

Clown...need another excel spreadsheet? How close is 29.8 billion to 700 billion?

Dude, chill the f*** out. In his post he states GM is asking for $30B. To someone unfamiliar to the situation, this would look like it was in addition to the money they received at the end of 2008 which it is not. They are currently asking for only (and I use the term loosely) $16.6B this time around. Please don't call me names when you misconstrue my posts.

[Silver Streak]

Another Doom and Gloom thread!

[RT21]

Originally Posted by kdbolt70

Dude, chill the f*** out. In his post he states GM is asking for $30B. To someone unfamiliar to the situation, this would look like it was in addition to the money they received at the end of 2008 which it is not. They are currently asking for only (and I use the term loosely) $16.6B this time around. Please don't call me names when you misconstrue my posts.

He/his?...using first person? You wrote that. The point is, why add up stuff against GM, as the media does, when they, the media, totally blow off 700 billion to NON-worker paper pushers?

[RT21]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

Another Doom and Gloom thread!

Not really. They/them/clowns..are trying to. They watch the news too much. GM vs Rich paper pusher....first one to 700 billion wins.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by RT21

He/his?...using first person? You wrote that. The point is, why add up stuff against GM, as the media does, when they, the media, totally blow off 700 billion to NON-worker paper pushers?

GM gets the screw put to it for doing the right thing cause the first bailout went so badly and the Gov is back tracking to save their own *ss. They gave the wrong people the help and because of that I'm starting to think that this all was a very bad idea.

[kdbolt70]

Originally Posted by RT21

He/his?...using first person? You wrote that. The point is, why add up stuff against GM, as the media does, when they, the media, totally blow off 700 billion to NON-worker paper pushers?

He, as in the person I was quoting. Did you notice I quoted another person in my post? What I was doing was trying to dispel the misinformation. I uh... kinda would like to see GM stick around... my father has worked for them for 35 years. I'm not a "clown", as you so imply...


And I agree, I think it is an atrocity the money we dole out to financial institutions without batting an eye, and yet instigate marshall law when it comes to auto makers. The fraction of money the auto industry requires to stay active during this recession is peanuts compared to what we have, and will, dole out to the banks and your "paper pushers".

[RT21]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

GM gets the screw put to it for doing the right thing cause the first bailout went so badly and the Gov is back tracking to save their own *ss. They gave the wrong people the help and because of that I'm starting to think that this all was a very bad idea.

Yup...so instead of the RICH CEOs getting trashed for using 700 Billion to pay themselves bonuses, let pay off the media to trash the 3 American Auto Makers cause they want a piece of the pie. Focus on the Auto makers...take eyes off of the 7oo billion. Doesn't anyone see hot F;d up that is? 700 billion?!?!?!?! And WE are gonna bitch about GM for wanting REAL help in a very hard time?

[RT21]

Originally Posted by kdbolt70

He, as in the person I was quoting. Did you notice I quoted another person in my post? What I was doing was trying to dispel the misinformation. I uh... kinda would like to see GM stick around... my father has worked for them for 35 years. I'm not a "clown", as you so imply...


And I agree, I think it is an atrocity the money we dole out to financial institutions without batting an eye, and yet instigate marshall law when it comes to auto makers. The fraction of money the auto industry requires to stay active during this recession is peanuts compared to what we have, and will, dole out to the banks and your "paper pushers".

Dude...whatever...please don't call them "your "paper pushers"". I'm the one that is objecting to them.

[blckWS6TA]

Our country deserves a depression for our fiscal irresponsibilty. GM deserves to tank, so does Chrysler. So does every other company that put themselves in that position.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Supermans

Well, I haven't read the 117 page report filed by GM asking for the bailout. However I for one was one of the people who felt GM should have filed for Chapter 11 before the first bailout and everyone was giving the same reasons back then as they are today for why GM should get bailed out. I do understand the struggle with the retirees and workers losing their jobs. What should have been done before is GM filing for Chapter 11 and the Government helping out the retirees who need their retirement to stay alive and in their homes and for the Government to help the workers losing their jobs to find new ones. This would have allowed GM to cut the ties with the union and legacy costs while they could have worked on a restructuring without Government control....

Their estimates for need for government aid in a chapter 11 scenario are up to $100bil. Basically the idea is that people won't buy cars from a company that's under bankruptcy protection. And I agree with that. Their sales will drop off a cliff until they're operating normally again. Normally a company that files bankruptcy would seek (and find) "debtor in posession" (often referred to as dip) financing but the way the credit market is and the massive sum of money that GM would need to make it through a bankruptcy simply make this impossible; only the government has the ability to fund that.

There's some ways of making ch. 11 work but it's all very ugly and would cost taxpayers much more than taking care of this without the courts.

So really the options at this point are denying all federal aid to GM and allowing them to go ch. 7 or giving them the pittance (in comparison to the banking handouts) they need to restructure without the courts' help.

And really, GM is already in bankruptcy. They're already making massive restructuring changes without the court's help. All chapter 11 is force their creditors, dealers, and the union to play ball. From the sounds of it, they're already making concessions so an official filing seems redundant at this point.

Oh and how do you think the UAW would react when their contracts are shredded in bankruptcy court? I'll give you one guess and a hint... it rhymes with "strike."

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by kdbolt70

Dude, chill the f*** out. In his post he states GM is asking for $30B. To someone unfamiliar to the situation, this would look like it was in addition to the money they received at the end of 2008 which it is not. They are currently asking for only (and I use the term loosely) $16.6B this time around. Please don't call me names when you misconstrue my posts.

Yeah only 16.6 billion.. lol.. RT21, I see why they call you the thread killer..lol..

How much more of our grandchildren's money are we going to throw at the problems that the US Government under Clinton and Bush created in the first place? How much more bailouts will occur before we the people say enough already? 2 more years worth? 4 more years worth? 8 more years worth? Why would anybody invest capital in the United States if it's perceived that our growth is going to be slower than the rest of the world's each and every time we print out billions or trillions more? I have faith that the economy is going to recover at some point, however it isn't going to be the result of any bailouts.. And when it does recover, how much damage is going to be done..At that point taxes will have to be raised in order to pay off all the debt incurred from the bailouts and the only cars that the government will allow GM to build are small econo boxes like the make-believe "Pelosi" photoshop from another thread .. As for the Camaro, if it was taken out of commission once before while we were in much better times, why should we feel confident it isn't going anywhere in todays very heated climate. Isn't the platform Zeta platform the Camaro is on going to be its last? link below..

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11830

If there is an auto czar and panel giving orders to GM's CEO as to what they can or can't build, we might be seeing a front wheel drive Camaro if we're lucky at that point in time the way things are going.. I know its hard but I will keep the faith and pray that everything works out for the best. Preaching doom and gloom isn't going to make things better. However speaking up about it in a forum filled with bright young/old enthusiasts may spark a lightbulb somewhere and we each have a voice in this. SOme pro some against however it is very good we are all having a civilized conversation here about the issue. That is the most important thing..

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by blckWS6TA

Our country deserves a depression for our fiscal irresponsibilty. GM deserves to tank, so does Chrysler. So does every other company that put themselves in that position.

The ironic thing is that Ford was much worse off than GM so they needed to borrow money before the meltdown and they were able to get tons of money that they're now living off of which is impossible to get now because of the credit crunch.

[GrnMchin]

Ya, the younger Gen my be stuck with a big part of the bill which make me feel ill, because I have kids, but loosing half of my investment knowing I will never get it back makes me wants to stop the bleeding at all cost. Hell whats another 15 years add to the 20 I have left.

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Their estimates for need for government aid in a chapter 11 scenario are up to $100bil. Basically the idea is that people won't buy cars from a company that's under bankruptcy protection. And I agree with that. Their sales will drop off a cliff until they're operating normally again. Normally a company that files bankruptcy would seek (and find) "debtor in posession" (often referred to as dip) financing but the way the credit market is and the massive sum of money that GM would need to make it through a bankruptcy simply make this impossible; only the government has the ability to fund that.

There's some ways of making ch. 11 work but it's all very ugly and would cost taxpayers much more than taking care of this without the courts.

So really the options at this point are denying all federal aid to GM and allowing them to go ch. 7 or giving them the pittance (in comparison to the banking handouts) they need to restructure without the courts' help.

Oh and how do you think the UAW would react when their contracts are shredded in bankruptcy court? I'll give you one guess and a hint... it rhymes with "strike."