The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by stand-al0ne

Idk, I like beefing up the Vette part, but I think a little overlap between similar products in house is fine. I mean, no matter which way the buyer sways, GM wins either way, so why not. So that said, I wouldnt like to see the base Vette dropped because its still a bargain for what you get and as long as it keeps pulling buyers away from M3s and the like, dont drop it.

The base Vette, I do not think, would have a reason to be in there. If the ZL1 is expected to meet or even beat the 2011 GT500 PP, then it must also beat the C6 by a good margin as well. So, I'm expecting the ZL1 to be quicker around a track than the base C6 by a good margin.

And how do you see the Camaro freeing up a slot as the performance option for the common man when that top-of-the-line Camaro will likely reach 50k???

I would say $50K is affordable for the top 30% of the middle class. The base C6 was historically touted as affordable performance, so I see no reason why the ZL1 can not be labeled the same.

Personally, Id rather have a car designed around a performance-purpose that easily hits good performance #'s, than a car not as intended that has to completely be beefed up to achieve similar performance. My example of this is I would assume the base Vette will get around most road courses in the the same or better times than the ZL1 Camaro will...And the best part is the Corvette is easily mod-able from its "base" point.

Bold - GM should be thinking about all of their consumers instead of just you.

As I said above, if our expectations are to be realized, then the base C6 will be beaten by the ZL1 around most tracks. Well, engine wise the Camaro is not that much different from the base Corvette. I would agree with you that it is probably a better chassis to start from!

But I completely agree with you saying why not raise the ceiling of the Vette.

However I have a feel you may have made a bunch of ZR1 designers upset by reading that, lol

I'll live!

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by BigDan

2012 GT500's are already in show rooms, meaning 2013's will also be in show rooms this time next year along with the ZL1, they wont be a year apart.

So it's even worse than I thought, ZL1 comes out and the Gt500 will already have 620hp. thats not good for camaro fans...:(

[C5RocksC5]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

So it's even worse than I thought, ZL1 comes out and the Gt500 will already have 620hp. thats not good for camaro fans...:(

Ford rains on GM's parade, again! :( Maybe the SS will be lighter next year so it can at least beat the 5.0. Ford's trifecta is a good one.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

So it's even worse than I thought, ZL1 comes out and the Gt500 will already have 620hp. thats not good for camaro fans...:(

To be fair GM has only given estimates on the HP for the ZL1.

But I don't think they will give it near the same HP as the ZR1. Now they could bump the power on the ZR1.

We won't know about the ZL1 till it is on the showroom floor.

[thePill]

Please do not compare a Mustang to a Corvette on any level trim, the Corvette is in the same position the Mustang is in its specific market. Both are affordable offerings in their classes that 9 times out of 10, is actually better than what is offered across both oceans.

[radz28]

I'm still thinking LS9 and LSA are do for a power bumper very soon. It's been a few years, so I think it's about time. That's part of the reason why I think ZL1 will be somewhat close to 600 horse'.

We'll have to wait and see though.

[ViperTomcat]

The question is..is GM willing to take the hit in fuel economy to match the GT500's power boost?

GM already has several gas guzzling performance cars, Ford has none. Even if Ford did have to take a GG tax on a new GT500 at 600+ HP, it would be marginal in the larger realm of things.

As I can count, GM has a GG tax on the ZR1, Z06, CST-V, CTS-V Coupe, CTS-V Sport Wagon and now the ZL1. Each one of those GM has to pay for to the Federal Government.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

The biggest problem with hypereutectic pistons is their hardness. They are actually "harder" than most forged applications, but with hardness comes brittleness and susceptibility to breakage from deformation. Knock kills hypereutectic pistons, KILLS them, so in a factory application the tune will have to be much more conservative than a forged set would allow, which is necessary to accommodate varying weather and altitudes. That doesn't mean that the LSA can't make some fantastic power and run for years at that level, it just means that in comparison to the 5.4 tuning is going to have to be far more conservative on pump and equivalent fuels. That gives a big advantage to ford when it comes to factory outputs. The 5.4 could potentially put out (and has with the supersnake packages) over 700hp without touching the reciprocating assembly or any other internal engine component for that matter. Tuned for the crappy west coast 91, I highly, highly doubt the LSA is capable of numbers at that level while maintaining reliability with a factory tune. With a good dyno tune, it probably is. Anyway, this may not even be an issue as the cars may not move to those power levels for a long time, but it is still one thing that I'm sure Ford is aware of and Chevy as well. I have hypereutectic pistons in my car and have yet to break anything, but I also have a set of forged pistons waiting to go in for the day I get a tank of bad gas LOL.

Anyway, this just means that GM is going to have to pay a lot of attention to cooling, not only with squirters, but the intake charge and that is what you are going to want to take care of FIRST in the modding path. Cooling, cooling, cooling, a great tune, and consistent fuel delivery to battle knock.

Great post. I know I'll be focusing on cooling. There are many great solutions out there and supporting Sponsors here

Originally Posted by thePill

Please do not compare a Mustang to a Corvette on any level trim, the Corvette is in the same position the Mustang is in its specific market. Both are affordable offerings in their classes that 9 times out of 10, is actually better than what is offered across both oceans.

I don't see this comparison. They are in different classes. Yes - the Boss has performance in the 'Vette class, but even comparing a GT500 to a GS just seems a bit silly to me. Both are definately great values; it should go without saying I believe CAMARO is, too .

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by radz28

I'm still thinking LS9 and LSA are do for a power bumper very soon. It's been a few years, so I think it's about time. That's part of the reason why I think ZL1 will be somewhat close to 600 horse'.

We'll have to wait and see though.

I believe that GM is just baiting Ford and their taking the bait and running with it like a small mouth onto a stoneycat.

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

To be fair GM has only given estimates on the HP for the ZL1.

But I don't think they will give it near the same HP as the ZR1. Now they could bump the power on the ZR1.

We won't know about the ZL1 till it is on the showroom floor.

They did estimate the HP, I agree.
BUT, They also indicated the mg9 tranny, so they really can't do north of 575hp.
-bobby

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I believe that GM is just baiting Ford and their taking the bait and running with it like a small mouth onto a stoneycat.

I am sure Ford follows the ZR1 power level to where it wants to go. That is the strategy that forces GM into a bind.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I believe that GM is just baiting Ford and their taking the bait and running with it like a small mouth onto a stoneycat.

I think GM would be ignorant to think Ford wouldn't respond; look at the Duramax/Powerstroke deal. And I don't think GM is ignorant Do I think they're prepared to take ZL1 to what is being reported on the GT500? I don't think so, nor do I think it's really necessary. Would I support it? H3LL YES!!! I can't support it with $$$ that I don't have though, lol.

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

They did estimate the HP, I agree.
BUT, They also indicated the mg9 tranny, so they really can't do north of 575hp.
-bobby

Things can always change, just like the estimated power. I don't know really how big a deal it would be to go from that gearbox to ZR1's, but I can't why it can't happen. Look what they did for the 4L70 trannies. They upgraded planetaries, clutches, and even heat-treated the output shaft too, I think, so it's not like they couldn't specify some specific components to cope with the power. Time's getting short, though. I believe LSA is pushing the boundries of the 6L90, too, but GM still uses it for CTS-V, so I'm not convinced of all the points, though I certainly appreciate the points made.

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I am sure Ford follows the ZR1 power level to where it wants to go. That is the strategy that forces GM into a bind.

I don't really see it as GM's in a bind, per se. That's mostly because of my POV. I think it forces Ford into making a car like that, and I seriously doubt it's going to be able to really compete with ZR1, or maybe even Carbon. Ford certainly doesn't have to worry about stepping on another products toes though, like I believe you're saying

JMVHO though.

[Sax1031]

Ford isn't trying to compete with the ZR1.

Just keep the HP is the same area as the ZR1 to have insurance against the ZL1.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

The question is..is GM willing to take the hit in fuel economy to match the GT500's power boost?

GM already has several gas guzzling performance cars, Ford has none. Even if Ford did have to take a GG tax on a new GT500 at 600+ HP, it would be marginal in the larger realm of things.

As I can count, GM has a GG tax on the ZR1, Z06, CST-V, CTS-V Coupe, CTS-V Sport Wagon and now the ZL1. Each one of those GM has to pay for to the Federal Government.

Gotta' pay to play