Volt rated at 93 MPGe ... and 37 mpg ... and 60 mpg

[djinva]

Originally Posted by Shadowsong

No thank you. My cars will be Gasoline ONLY till the day I die. I don't care how much I have to pay for it.

I have always had gas golf carts and this past summer I sold my last gas cart and bought an electric one. The gas carts are getting harder to find and the electric ones are cheap. After having it 6 months I LOVE it. I didn't think I would ever consider anything electric, but now I would love to try a Volt. My point is never say never.

[v6sonoma]

My dad's had a deposit on one for a few weeks now. Might not see it for a year probably. Then again we Camaro faithful all know very well about waiting.

[motorhead]

I thought this was a cool idea until I started looking at the numbers. One would have to be insane to buy this car. A 2011 ford fiesta well equipped cost around $20,000 and gets around 39MPG. Even if one was to run the volt on total electric and get the $8,000 dollar tax credit to purchase it, it would still cost $8,500 more in 5 years and that's including the saving to run on total electric which I highly doubt most people will be able to do unless they live in a city. That's also not including the extra interest for a larger loan payment over that five years. This car just doesn't add up. Plus one can drive a fiesta anywhere without the need for a plug and get the great MPG all the time. I'm starting to really go the other way with this volt the more I read about it.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Shadowsong

No thank you. My cars will be Gasoline ONLY till the day I die. I don't care how much I have to pay for it.

Me too.

I still stand by my prediction that the Volt will be a flop. I just don't think Americans are going to buy electric cars in large numbers. History is on my side, and the fact the Government is having to literally pay people to buy these cars (via tax credits, etc) makes me even more confident in my predicition.

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I thought this was a cool idea until I started looking at the numbers. One would have to be insane to buy this car. A 2011 ford fiesta well equipped cost around $20,000 and gets around 39MPG. Even if one was to run the volt on total electric and get the $8,000 dollar tax credit to purchase it, it would still cost $8,500 more in 5 years and that's including the saving to run on total electric which I highly doubt most people will be able to do unless they live in a city. That's also not including the extra interest for a larger loan payment over that five years. This car just doesn't add up. Plus one can drive a fiesta anywhere without the need for a plug and get the great MPG all the time. I'm starting to really go the other way with this volt the more I read about it.

true but they had to try and put this into production.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by King Sun

true but they had to try and put this into production.

Why did they? They clearly aren't ready yet in my book. Now If they could do the same car and sell them for $20,000 then they might have a real winner. I guess only time will tell if the public is on board enough for it to be a success. For me I'll wait until it makes sense.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Me too.

I still stand by my prediction that the Volt will be a flop. I just don't think Americans are going to buy electric cars in large numbers. History is on my side, and the fact the Government is having to literally pay people to buy these cars (via tax credits, etc) makes me even more confident in my predicition.

The one thing your historicism didn't tell is the new green trend; just because it happened in the past cannot assert it must happen again in the future. Also, this is not a pure EV but an EREV. Acknowledging both of these facts will lead one to assume that the Volt will sell in relatively larger numbers than any of its predecessors.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Why did they? They clearly aren't ready yet in my book. Now If they could do the same car and sell them for $20,000 then they might have a real winner. I guess only time will tell if the public is on board enough for it to be a success. For me I'll wait until it makes sense.

Why could they not price it so ridiculously low? They're presently losing money on the Volt as it is, so it becomes obvious why they priced in around $40K.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I thought this was a cool idea until I started looking at the numbers. One would have to be insane to buy this car. A 2011 ford fiesta well equipped cost around $20,000 and gets around 39MPG. Even if one was to run the volt on total electric and get the $8,000 dollar tax credit to purchase it, it would still cost $8,500 more in 5 years and that's including the saving to run on total electric which I highly doubt most people will be able to do unless they live in a city. That's also not including the extra interest for a larger loan payment over that five years. This car just doesn't add up. Plus one can drive a fiesta anywhere without the need for a plug and get the great MPG all the time. I'm starting to really go the other way with this volt the more I read about it.

Ok first a Fiesta probably isn't getting 39 around town. That's the highway number. So realistically let's be generous and say it gets 35 in all around driving. Now let's assume you drive 40 miles a day, the Volts claim to fame. At $3.00 per gallon you are using $3.15 per day or $22 per week which is $1150 per year in fuel. Double that savings if you drive 80 miles and can charge at work. So for the ability to use NO fuel, a claim that is worth a lot to many people, you pay back the higher price of the Volt in 8 years, not counting for your interest concern, but at 4% or less that's maybe another year.

And yes these are optimal numbers but it isn't as straightforward as you think. Oh and if gas hits $4 or higher then what?

[Mr. Wyndham]

People also need to understand that the car was NOT.....

...NOT...

...designed to save you money.

It was designed to make a few different statements about electric cars, and about GM in general. It was also designed because there is a significant amount of people who are interested in buying this car. And honestly, $350 a month is not too much more than what most of us here are paying for Camaros (in some cases it's less!!)....so I'm not seeing why its so insane to buy a very well-equipped car if you've got the money.

If you're on a budget -- get a Cruze, that's who it was designed for. and 42 on the highway ain't too shabby.

Different markets, people. We can compare the Volt to a cheap econobox all day and call it 'insane'...but then we may as well compare the Camaro to the prius and call it a stupid choice, as well.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Me too.

I still stand by my prediction that the Volt will be a flop. I just don't think Americans are going to buy electric cars in large numbers. History is on my side, and the fact the Government is having to literally pay people to buy these cars (via tax credits, etc) makes me even more confident in my predicition.

And just what constitutes a flop? Because by all measures, if you want to call the Volt a sales flop you'd have to also call the Corvette a sales flop. Last year they sold just 14k units, and the year before that, 27k. And they don't make a whole lot of money on them either. For years, decades really, it was suspected that GM lost money on each Corvette sold because the price and volume was relatively low yet R&D was high.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Why did they? They clearly aren't ready yet in my book. Now If they could do the same car and sell them for $20,000 then they might have a real winner. I guess only time will tell if the public is on board enough for it to be a success. For me I'll wait until it makes sense.

So wait, you expect that delivers far more than any other compact at the same price as any other compact? Thats not going to work. Follow the math: take a loaded Cruze, add $20k worth of batteries and other hybrid associated tech, and the end result is not $20k.

As for why, I'll go back to the Corvette. Why do they need to build those? Afterall, they can't be making a whole lot of money (if any) on them as is, so why bother? Three reasons: trickle down technology, dealer traffic, and brand image. The engine technology for the Corvette gets transfered to other cars, like the Camaro. Additionally, people get drawn into dealerships because of the 'halo cars' and ultimately settle for something less expensive (such as Corvette down to Camaro). And brand image is pretty self explanatory.

All three of those things also apply to the Volt, perhaps even more successfully than the Corvette. Things developed for the Volt like electric AC can easily be utilized in other GM vehicles, boosting their efficiency. And there will be quite a few people who balk at the price take of the Volt so they drive away with a Cruze instead. And image is obvious.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok first a Fiesta probably isn't getting 39 around town. That's the highway number. So realistically let's be generous and say it gets 35 in all around driving. Now let's assume you drive 40 miles a day, the Volts claim to fame. At $3.00 per gallon you are using $3.15 per day or $22 per week which is $1150 per year in fuel. Double that savings if you drive 80 miles and can charge at work. So for the ability to use NO fuel, a claim that is worth a lot to many people, you pay back the higher price of the Volt in 8 years, not counting for your interest concern, but at 4% or less that's maybe another year.

And yes these are optimal numbers but it isn't as straightforward as you think. Oh and if gas hits $4 or higher then what?

Look this is fifth grade math we're talking about here. The answer is right on the window sticker of the volt and the fiesta. No matter how people try to work numbers in the volts favor it's not a good purchase. I hate to tell you but electric is going up also and who knows what kind of upkeep this car will require. I based my figures on current data right from the window stickers of both cars, and I did use the volt's the maximum rating by figuring it at full electric which for me and most other folks across the land would never be able to do with it's very limited range on electric only. Look I know we need to come up with other ways of getting around ,but I don't think this is anyway the answer.

[Shadowsong]

I just couldn't do it. I am a car enthusiast, old school to some extent. I love the sound of a gasoline motor, the smell of the exhaust, the smell of the gasoline itself. I'm all for improving the efficiency of gasoline motors, but hybrids and electric cars, No thanks.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And just what constitutes a flop? Because by all measures, if you want to call the Volt a sales flop you'd have to also call the Corvette a sales flop. Last year they sold just 14k units, and the year before that, 27k. And they don't make a whole lot of money on them either. For years, decades really, it was suspected that GM lost money on each Corvette sold because the price and volume was relatively low yet R&D was high.


So wait, you expect that delivers far more than any other compact at the same price as any other compact? Thats not going to work. Follow the math: take a loaded Cruze, add $20k worth of batteries and other hybrid associated tech, and the end result is not $20k.

As for why, I'll go back to the Corvette. Why do they need to build those? Afterall, they can't be making a whole lot of money (if any) on them as is, so why bother? Three reasons: trickle down technology, dealer traffic, and brand image. The engine technology for the Corvette gets transfered to other cars, like the Camaro. Additionally, people get drawn into dealerships because of the 'halo cars' and ultimately settle for something less expensive (such as Corvette down to Camaro). And brand image is pretty self explanatory.

All three of those things also apply to the Volt, perhaps even more successfully than the Corvette. Things developed for the Volt like electric AC can easily be utilized in other GM vehicles, boosting their efficiency. And there will be quite a few people who balk at the price take of the Volt so they drive away with a Cruze instead. And image is obvious.

No, I don't expect that at all. The reason is because you don't need $20,000 worth of batteries to out perform the volt. All you need is a Ford fiesta. Which by the way has many very well thought out features for a lot less money and will cost you less to own.