The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

How do people get 5 to 6 mph trap speed increases with these mustangs with only ~30hp worth of mods? and this is assuming he could have trapped 114 stock...which is also rare

Is weight being taken out and not mentioned? it just doesnt add up.

(highest trap I have ever seen for a 6 speed car stock is 114...he hit 119)

axle back...little gain...x-pipe...wow...and a tune. The car doesnt even have headers. The car really doesnt even have any real performance mods besides the tune. IT is far from full bolt on.

5-6 mph trap increase? that is 50-60hp all things staying equal.

someone educate me. (and I know all about the stock rev limiter...not buying that as the reason)

The car is trapping as fast as ls3 vettes while having no more power to the wheels (ls3 vettes ~390whp) and being 400lbs heavier...once again...educate me.

I know these cars get a lot form the tune while still being on the stock manifolds (such a good design) but this is just odd. I am skeptical to say the least.

Ti-VCT, high compression and the ability to make peak power at 7,500rpm is the main reason. More rpm sometimes is more beneficial then more whp.

Ive seen a 5.0L trap 117 with CAI, DR's and stock tune, and my friend trapped 112mph with a crappy 2.1 60ft his first time ever at the track.

The factory soft rev limiter (70%ish throttle at 6,800rpm) and full limiter at 7,000. Most tuner's raise it to 7,500+ which is why they are picking up so much mph because the the 5.0L's make peak power at redline and still keeps climbing. More rpm = quicker ET's and higher mph and usually wins roll races.

This is why Duramax's are now dominating the high end diesel drags and sled pull's because they can rev to 5,500 vs the Cummins which top's out at 4,000 even though the Cummins usually are making more hp and tq. This is another reason why Evo's are so quick and can beat vette's with alot less whp, and why Honda's even bother racing.

[MatchbookSS]

Originally Posted by assasinator

i wasnt thinking when i posted it that way. i deserve a facepalm.

if i DO ever run it i will use NT05r's. much better than 555r's.

Not speaking from experience, but I was told by one of the guys at the track that was runnig the NT05r's hook better than the 555r's, but you'll get something ridiculous like 20% of the wear out of them compared to the 555r's.

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

How do people get 5 to 6 mph trap speed increases with these mustangs with only ~30hp worth of mods? and this is assuming he could have trapped 114 stock...which is also rare

Is weight being taken out and not mentioned? it just doesnt add up.

(highest trap I have ever seen for a 6 speed car stock is 114...he hit 119)

axle back...little gain...x-pipe...wow...and a tune. The car doesnt even have headers. The car really doesnt even have any real performance mods besides the tune. IT is far from full bolt on.

5-6 mph trap increase? that is 50-60hp all things staying equal.

someone educate me. (and I know all about the stock rev limiter...not buying that as the reason)

The car is trapping as fast as ls3 vettes while having no more power to the wheels (ls3 vettes ~390whp) and being 400lbs heavier...once again...educate me.

I know these cars get a lot form the tune while still being on the stock manifolds (such a good design) but this is just odd. I am skeptical to say the least.

More aggressive gearing + higher RPM limits? Net torque?

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by BigDan

Ti-VCT, high compression and the ability to make peak power at 7,500rpm is the main reason. More rpm sometimes is more beneficial then more whp.

Ive seen a 5.0L trap 117 with CAI, DR's and stock tune, and my friend trapped 112mph with a crappy 2.1 60ft his first time ever at the track.

The factory soft rev limiter (70%ish throttle at 6,800rpm) and full limiter at 7,000. Most tuner's raise it to 7,500+ which is why they are picking up so much mph because the the 5.0L's make peak power at redline and still keeps climbing. More rpm = quicker ET's and higher mph and usually wins roll races.

This is why Duramax's are now dominating the high end diesel drags and sled pull's because they can rev to 5,500 vs the Cummins which top's out at 4,000 even though the Cummins usually are making more hp and tq. This is another reason why Evo's are so quick and can beat vette's with alot less whp, and why Honda's even bother racing.

LOL!

[xx_ED_xx]

[MatchbookSS]

Originally Posted by a_Username

LOL!

Originally Posted by xx_ED_xx

You guys laugh and face palm, but he's completely right. That's why a 2.4L N/A K20/24 frankenstein motor with just bolt-ons and a tune making maybe 240whp and 180wtq will keep with far more powerful V8 powered vehicles on the freeway. I mentioned it before, it's net torque. Aggressive gearing, plus a powerband that peaks at the high end of 8k or more RPMs make for cars that are fairly quick. Just don't ask them to race from a stop. They'll just spin all day long, since they're Failwheeldrive.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by MatchbookSS

You guys laugh and face palm, but he's completely right. That's why a 2.4L N/A K20/24 frankenstein motor with just bolt-ons and a tune making maybe 240whp and 180wtq will keep with far more powerful V8 powered vehicles on the freeway. I mentioned it before, it's net torque. Aggressive gearing, plus a powerband that peaks at the high end of 8k or more RPMs make for cars that are fairly quick. Just don't ask them to race from a stop. They'll just spin all day long, since they're Failwheeldrive.

I'm sure he's right, it was just the comment I found funny.

[Camaro_hx]

Originally Posted by assasinator

yes you are.

LOOOOOOL!!!
..now i should stop, cus ive been banned b4 all 'cus of this MUSTANG thread!

Peace!

[ULTRAZLS1]

So the stock cams will make power to 7500....

How are people going to run larger aftermarket cams etc? spin the stock bottom end to 8k? will that even last/hold up?

I am anxious to see how an average daily driver stock bottom end pump gas car will respond to cams. Or are cams even needed if the car can vary the cam timing etc? I am very uneducated when it comes to this system. It seems like the stock cam (cams) set up is rather maximized from the factory if it can make power to 7500.

Looks like we need a large cam to keep up....but the 5.0 may not get nearly as much out of a H/C like the ls3 does. (current dyno reports show gains of ZERO hp and a loss of torque from head porting on stock cams)
The stock 5.0 heads and cams seem to be very effective to begin with.
I highly doubt it is maxed...but gains could be less than expected.
Example...ls3 cars get far more out of headers than the 5.0 due to the 5.0 having better tubular style manifolds to start.
Will this be the same case with the stock Head and Cam config?

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

The 5.0 is a beast of an engine!!!!!

Really? I hadn't heard that.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

So the stock cams will make power to 7500....

How are people going to run larger aftermarket cams etc? spin the stock bottom end to 8k? will that even last/hold up?

I am anxious to see how an average daily driver stock bottom end pump gas car will respond to cams. Or are cams even needed if the car can vary the cam timing etc? I am very uneducated when it comes to this system. It seems like the stock cam (cams) set up is rather maximized from the factory if it can make power to 7500.

Looks like we need a large cam to keep up....but the 5.0 may not get nearly as much out of a H/C like the ls3 does. (current dyno reports show gains of ZERO hp and a loss of torque from head porting on stock cams)
The stock 5.0 heads and cams seem to be very effective to begin with.
I highly doubt it is maxed...but gains could be less than expected.
Example...ls3 cars get far more out of headers than the 5.0 due to the 5.0 having better tubular style manifolds to start.
Will this be the same case with the stock Head and Cam config?

you can still run larger duration and higher lift cams and still keep the same rpm range. The LS3 makes decent power till its 6600rpm shift point. I see a lot of aftermarket cams for it make way more power but still be all done by 6700rpm or so. soooo.........

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

you can still run larger duration and higher lift cams and still keep the same rpm range. The LS3 makes decent power till its 6600rpm shift point. I see a lot of aftermarket cams for it make way more power but still be all done by 6700rpm or so. soooo.........

The LS3 is not a high revving motor like the 5.0. The 5.0 already makes more of its power high in the RPM range. Cams will effect it differently.

Even the cams that rev to ~7k do better in the ls3. Example...g6x3...it lays down 15+ more hp consistently over lower revving cams. More horsepower will always be made as RPMs increase...and this is especially true for a smaller displacement motor.

And given the car has VCT...the cams are inherently more effective than a stock LS3 cam...along with my previous statement this leads me to believe gains in cams may not be as great. Not to mention the great stock head flow and H/P per liter it is already making with the stock cams. 100 rwhp per liter on pump gas and stock bottom end will be truly incredible if it can be done. That would be like the LS3 making 620 rwhp with a H/C package. If they replace the pistons and use Race gas etc to achieve this I will not be nearly as surprised...in fact it is very likely in that case.

But we will see.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

The LS3 is not a high revving motor like the 5.0. The 5.0 already makes more of its power high in the RPM range. Cams will effect it differently.

Even the cams that rev to ~7k do better in the ls3. Example...g6x3...it lays down 15+ more hp consistently over lower revving cams. More horsepower will always be made as RPMs increase...and this is especially true for a smaller displacement motor.

And given the car has VCT...the cams are inherently more effective than a stock LS3 cam...along with my previous statement this leads me to believe gains in cams may not be as great. Not to mention the great stock head flow and H/P per liter it is already making with the stock cams. 100 rwhp per liter on pump gas and stock bottom end will be truly incredible if it can be done. That would be like the LS3 making 620 rwhp with a H/C package. If they replace the pistons and use Race gas etc to achieve this I will not be nearly as surprised...in fact it is very likely in that case.

But we will see.

you cant just extrapolate and say its like an LS3 making 620rwhp, because engines become less efficient the larger they are.

Sure a higher revving cam helps, of course it does. But even larger aftermarket cams for the LS3 with the same rev range as stock still make MORE power than the stock cam. No reason to think the same logic cant be applied to other engines since it always has.

The variable cam timing will only help the 5.0 run larger cams without giving up much on the bottom end of the rev range. And from what i hear the 5.0L engines are built to see 7500rpm+ safely.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

you cant just extrapolate and say its like an LS3 making 620rwhp, because engines become less efficient the larger they are.

Sure a higher revving cam helps, of course it does. But even larger aftermarket cams for the LS3 with the same rev range as stock still make MORE power than the stock cam. No reason to think the same logic cant be applied to other engines since it always has.

The variable cam timing will only help the 5.0 run larger cams without giving up much on the bottom end of the rev range. And from what i hear the 5.0L engines are built to see 7500rpm+ safely.

We'll see....

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

you can still run larger duration and higher lift cams and still keep the same rpm range. The LS3 makes decent power till its 6600rpm shift point. I see a lot of aftermarket cams for it make way more power but still be all done by 6700rpm or so. soooo.........

i really wanna see where stock cam really falls off. Mine holds strong to 6800rpm redline. Drops maybe 5HP.
I say I can with stock cam go out to 7000 to 7200rpms.. just worried stock bottom end cant on LS3 wont last long at those rpms
especially since when I shift it is going to drop 100HP anyway into a wider gear..