Chinese components

[Sax1031]

And you have to love crap like this:

AFL-CIO leader calls on Detroit automaker to give back union concessions


One three-month period of profitability after years losses may be reason to cheer, but it hardly justifies going back to the old ways of doing things, right? Nonetheless, according to The Detroit News, AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka this week called on General Motors, Ford and Chrysler to give back the concessions that the UAW made in the last couple of years as they companies went through bankruptcy. Trumka was speaking at the UAW's constitutional convention in Detroit.

Members of the UAW certainly gave up a lot in terms of both present and future benefits as well as wages for new employees, but industry watchers suggest that sales are still weak the companies are hardly thriving. Further, all automakers will also have to deal with developing vehicles that meet new fuel economy and CO2 standards over the next several years. In particular, GM and Chrysler need to launch new products and continue to streamline costs in order to be viable.

It's also unclear what, exactly, could be given back. Obviously, programs like the jobs bank are unlikely to be restored and the absence of total reform in the health care system means that restoring retiree health car programs are probably not on the table, either.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/15/r...o-give-back-u/

They really want to go ahead and finish off domestic automakers.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I bet when you factor in your benefits you are getting really close to $40 an hour.

Benefits can't be attributed to a worker in a direct manner though. A person making $20/hr working isn't getting $20 in benefits at the same time. It only works as an average, and even then, many of the benefits are still active after retirement and are more or less a fixed cost. So it doesn't really make much sense to combine the two since theoretically, if GM employed only 1 factor worker and everyone else was layed off or retired, he would have an equivalent hourly cost of millions of dollars per hour, despite the fact he only gets $20 or so. Conversely, if GM were to hire 10 million factory workers, the average cost of each would only be a bit higher than regular pay.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Benefits can't be attributed to a worker in a direct manner though. A person making $20/hr working isn't getting $20 in benefits at the same time. It only works as an average, and even then, many of the benefits are still active after retirement and are more or less a fixed cost. So it doesn't really make much sense to combine the two since theoretically, if GM employed only 1 factor worker and everyone else was layed off or retired, he would have an equivalent hourly cost of millions of dollars per hour, despite the fact he only gets $20 or so. Conversely, if GM were to hire 10 million factory workers, the average cost of each would only be a bit higher than regular pay.

Definitely.

All I was saying is that once everything is factored in he is probably making closer to $40 an hour than he believes.

Healthcare, retirement, etc... is worth a lot of money. Money you would have to make in actual pay if your company didn't offer the same benefits.

[myold88]

I once heard that if a GM assembly line workers was laid off because of slowdowns, shutdowns, etc and they were offered another job at another plant and they didn't like it for any reason, they didn't have to take it and still got paid..... Thanks unions.
A friend told me that in the 70's he worked near Detroit building Pontiacs- Every so often a car or two was pulled off line after a dent mysteriously appeard on a 1/4 panel. This kept one or two union workers working repairing those mysterious dents... Those "make work" jobs were negotiated in the union contracts.
Thanks unions and thanks GM for being so dumb.

[camaro guy]

well if you want a 100% USA made camaro. get ready for the $36k LS model.

[hot_rod]

DETROIT | Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:47pm EDT
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp GM.N Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's salary and other compensation rose 64 percent in 2007 to about $15.7 million, mainly due to option grants, according to a proxy filed on Friday.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If we're going to bash pay, don't leave out the management. Where was the board of directors when this 64% went down?

Ah let's just say they were not looking after the stock holders or bond holders.

GM Stock price in 4/07 ~$30.00/share, today ~$0.43/share.

Now who got the short end of this deal, the employees - union or management - or the investors/owners?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by hot_rod

DETROIT | Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:47pm EDT
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp GM.N Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's salary and other compensation rose 64 percent in 2007 to about $15.7 million, mainly due to option grants, according to a proxy filed on Friday.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If we're going bash pay, let's don't leave out the management. Where was the board of directors when this 64% went down?

Ah let's just say they were not looking after the stock holders or bond holders.

GM Stock price in 4/07 ~$30.00/share, today ~$0.43/share.

Now who got the short end of this deal, the employees - union or management - or the investors/owners?

"Mainly due to option grants" I believe that means stock options. So, if his compensation went up by ~6M in stock @$30/share, today that would be worth ... $88k @$0.43/share.

And for a CEO to be making less than $10M a year is pretty rare for companies with revenues of over $100B.

[LOWDOWN]

Someone please call an air marshall...this sucker's been hijacked...

[Michael_Js]

Different, yes...but some relevance: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38025260...s-us_business/

Is it possible to be an all-American company?

California flashlight maker is close, but it's still a rough road

[fielderLS3]

I've noticed that many "American" cars have gone from about 90% US/Canadian parts to generally about 60% in just the last few years. (Meanwhile, many Japanese cars have increased to 80% US/Canadian content). This may have a lot to do with the bankruptcies of the part suppliers. Many companies that made parts 5 years ago when American cars were at 90% went bankrupt too (and out of business, not bailed out), leaving them scrambling to find new suppliers. Hopefully this means some of these part contents can come back up a bit once all the financial problems are sorted through.

Originally Posted by Wilburbeest

Its true that most wheels are made in china now, which I honestly find surprising! American Racing.....made in china....how ****ed is that? The sad part is the price point you have to get to in order to get something American made. Not because of the labor costs or anything like that so much as that it seems like about the only time most wheels are not made in china anymore is if they're high dollar forged rims like CCW, Budnik, etc. I ordered some Ruff Racing 281s which I found were unfortunately made in china also.

This leads into another important point. A lot of stuff produced by outsourcing hasn't gotten any cheaper (cars have continued to go up through it all), anything still made in the US has simply gotten much more expensive much faster (without the outsourcing, the "true" inflation rate would shock us all). Outsourcing has become a means for producers to keep their products affordable with inflation outpacing wage gains. So in my book, the Fed deserves a good piece of the blame along with the unsustainable union deals.

[bigearl]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

This leads into another important point. A lot of stuff produced by outsourcing hasn't gotten any cheaper (cars have continued to go up through it all), anything still made in the US has simply gotten much more expensive much faster (without the outsourcing, the "true" inflation rate would shock us all). Outsourcing has become a means for producers to keep their products affordable with inflation outpacing wage gains. So in my book, the Fed deserves a good piece of the blame along with the unsustainable union deals.

I'm not sure that this is true. You hear these kinds of things based on running inflation figures from the 60s. However items that were considered luxury goods are now affordable due to outsourcing. The most common example is TVs. Now you have to do work just to figure out how to get rid of a TV, which was unheard of only 20 years ago. But you also have multiple phone #'s per household now, portable music, increased access to time saving kitchen appliances, etc. So there must be some extra money for luxuries in their somewhere at the average household level.

I don't think it's a zero-sum game to calculate inflation pressure. Outsourcing things like an SS badge doesn't bother me too much, there's not enough money there to provide for people (of course I don't want the bigger ticket items outsourced-including assembly). I don't want to see science and engineering outsourced. That's far more critical at this point-it's a little too late to put the genie back in the bottle on the small simple parts.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by bigearl

Outsourcing things like an SS badge doesn't bother me too much, there's not enough money there to provide for people. I don't want to see science and engineering outsourced.

Manufacturing engineering gets outsourced when stuff gets made overseas and there is plenty of scientific research goes into how to make things cheaper, such as a new process for producing a material. Sure, these jobs aren't as glamorous as designing an engine for a car, but they still get sent overseas when stuff gets made overseas.

[bigearl]

Here's the problem with that DG, it has nothing to do with glamorousness of a part. You get to a point where there simply is no way to make an item significantly cheaper except to either a)lower safety standards or wages, or b)make it with a machine. There's just no margin left on an item like an SS badge. You can't even do that work at minimum wage and make it work. And the US isn't number 1 in robotics so who will make the robot to make the SS badge? Probably Korea. There's no fantastic engineering breakthrough to be made at this level. I'm not even talking union wages-I'm saying 7.15 an hour is going to be hard to justify to make some products.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

I've noticed that many "American" cars have gone from about 90% US/Canadian parts to generally about 60% in just the last few years. (Meanwhile, many Japanese cars have increased to 80% US/Canadian content). This may have a lot to do with the bankruptcies of the part suppliers. Many companies that made parts 5 years ago when American cars were at 90% went bankrupt too (and out of business, not bailed out), leaving them scrambling to find new suppliers. Hopefully this means some of these part contents can come back up a bit once all the financial problems are sorted through.



This leads into another important point. A lot of stuff produced by outsourcing hasn't gotten any cheaper (cars have continued to go up through it all), anything still made in the US has simply gotten much more expensive much faster (without the outsourcing, the "true" inflation rate would shock us all). Outsourcing has become a means for producers to keep their products affordable with inflation outpacing wage gains. So in my book, the Fed deserves a good piece of the blame along with the unsustainable union deals.

What? http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/fact_kit.html

- The average Big 3 car used more than twice as much domestic content as the average foreign car, including those built in the U.S.

- 8 out of the 10 vehicles that Ford, GM, and Chrysler sell in the U.S. are made in the U.S., while only half of the cars other automakers sell here are made here.

There are very few foreign cars that are 90% "American" made as you claim, which the only one being that I can think of right now is the Toyota Camry.