Chinese components

[myold88]

Originally Posted by dmiller66

Unions are not at fault. American corporate greed is to blame.

Thats funny

[cab2g]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Start a little conversation about Chinese made auto parts and throw in a whole lot of other goodies. Good thread with the potential to be shut down at any moment.

But if I may comment as well.

First, as I've publicly stated on this site, anyone that works for GM and doesn't feel accountable for the bankruptcy is kidding themselves. We all had a nickle in it.

Financially, GM could no longer sustain the costs of paying pensions and healthcare to 400,000 retirees and their dependants while only having (at that time) 125,000 workers. That would be the equivalent of starting up a lawn mowing company with 6 people mowing at full salary and another 18 sitting at home collecting reduced pay and health insurance for themselves and family. It is a business model that just can't work. Is that the fault of the union? No, not entirely, but it took a complete collapse of the company before there were significant discussions on parity with the foreign competition. And frankly I'm not sure the union could have handled it anyother way, at least based on their history here in the U.S.. If you want to win the transplants in Tenn. and Alabama by telling them you exist to defend and protect the worker, you aren't setting a good case if you give in too early.

Management, sure lots to go around there as well. But "shipping jobs overseas" started with shipping jobs South of the border. And that was all done for lower labor rates. Material costs are the same anywhere you go, but the labor to make that raw material is something you can control. And if the labor costs had remained competitive, GM, Ford and Chrysler would have kept that work here in the U.S. as would the suppliers that make the parts. Now could we have a discussion on moving work simply to keep it out of the influence of the UAW? Sure there might even have been some of that as well.

You have to remember, too, salaried employees have taken HUGE cuts over the years. So all of the UAW should not focus on the top few managers, but realize that your salary brothers and sisters took giant pension cuts, they basically pay their first $5,000 in health care costs when they retire and lost health care all together after 65 and that is for those that hired in a longggg time ago. Me? I can work till I'm 65 and maybe get the same pension a UAW retire gets TODAY. But I won't get any health care and life insurance is ZERO. And you know what? There are a lot of people that would line up to get the deal I have. So we have to always keep that in perspective.

Product decisions? Could GM have done better there? Sure, no doubt. But prior to bankruptcy GM was selling a huge amount of vehicles. But by then, not enough to pay the bills and service the debt, which was crushing. GM simply imploded and there was simply nothing more that could be done.

Our government? Now IN MY OPINION that is where most of the problem lies. Of course you have to give credit to the UAW (and others) for the advancement of the standard of living in our country. Good pay, benefits, vacation etc. But our government had no real long term vision on how to protect that and sustain it.

But at the end of the day, it is simply us. In Japan and Germany, both countries with Unions (VERY Storng in Germany) and companies that are also trying to make huge profits to satisfy banks and stock holders. But they have a huge home market advantage. People don't and won't buy foreign goods, and if they do, there better be an assembly plant making it in their country. A friend who worked in Germany told me once, half joking (I hope), that in Germany, your plastic picnic forks better say "made in Germany" on them.

As a side note, when I traveled to Germany 2 years ago for GM, I looked over and saw an empty Walmart store. I was told it was closing as Germans wouldn't shop there. Apparently the "we offer the lowest prices" model didn't matter to Germans.

So if the American people won't pay a premium for "made in the USA", then businesses have to be cost competitive to survive. And for a business, surviving means making profits. Just like every other company in the world. It's not a dirty word, it's just a fact.

So everbody is playing a part. I like to say the American people chased our textile companies out of business so we coud save .50 on a pair of socks. And fundamentally that is how the American people opperate. We want a deal, the lowest cost and the way for more people to have more stuff is to get the cost down. And back to where we started, the way to get the cost down is to source labor to the lowest cost supplier and that, my friends, at least for the forseeable future is China.

So I guess it's human nature for labor to blame management and management to blame labor. But in my humble opinion, both get full credit as part of the same enterprise, sharing equal amounts of blame. And without a homefield advantage to sustain higher wages and profits, jobs get moved. Sad but also true.

By the way, why can James, Wade and Bosh go looking for contracts that pay them $30 million a year and that's ok. But a when a man or woman responsible for the livelihood for thousands or even hundreds of thousands of workers and retirees gets a huge salary it is reprehensible? Just asking.

I pretty much agree with what you're saying here. We all are to blame to an extent. Even the consumers... I made a choice never to buy at Wal-Mart because of their substandard quality and wages. I know what I'm doing won't really make that much of a difference, but you have to start somewhere. You have to take some pride in what you make (and buy) some people just want to buy the cheapest thing possible. They don't care how they get it, they just want it cheaper and faster.

It's so hard to actually find things that are made in the USA these days. Even the company I work for manufactures everything overseas. They haven't exported all of our engineering jobs yet. So for that, I am happy, but I worry some times that we don't make enough in our own country. All we have left are cars and large appliances/structures that are too big to ship cost-effectively. Well at least our banking industry is back to making profits And to be honest, at least we still have a strong service sector. But being an engineer, I still wish we made more.

[Wilburbeest]

Originally Posted by Dr Jekel

The problem won't ever be solved. Take for example this wonderful car.Some people acted totally retarded about delays in shipping productions etc....Today society has become instant gratification, with no respect, no morales and no pride. Just go to a Walmart, Mall or any other public place and you will see it in action.

I totally agree with you, man. As a side note, I refuse to give wal-mart business unless there is something I absolutely need when I get off work or something and nowhere else is open, or if for some reason I can't find X thing somewhere else. The above do not happen very often. Not to repeat what you already said but very few people seem to have any pride or morals anymore. I'm 19 by the way! I'm a damn kid and I see it! And to the guy (didn't notice who it was) that said he's the weirdo that paws through the hardware store looking for "made in USA", you're not a weirdo, you're awesome! I do the same thing! I will admit I have a lot of Chinese tools but whenever I have the cash for the American made product I pony it up. Sometimes I just can't, but if I can then I do. Or at least something made somewhere that people actually get paid if not American made. This is also part of why I deal with very small companies a lot.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by smhss

The tranny in the GT. :-(

Did you just say that the Mustang GT is for transvestites?

[DGthe3]

Outsourcing is great for everyone. Higher profits and lower labour cost for the company, bigger bonuses for management, and reduced cost for consumers. Everyone wins. Well, except for the people that just lost they're job to someone overseas. But hey, they can buy crap for $5 less then what they could buy before. And they're going to need the cheapest possible goods, seeing as they don't have a job anymore. Hmm ... perhaps the model needs to be rethought.

[Hicompression]

What you guys should really be worrying about is how many parts on Boeing aircraft are now being outsourced to Korea, China, Israel, etc. That's what truly worries me. There aren't any brakes when you're in the air...

Let's all boycott flying.

[Russo]

you'd be suprised how much glass is made in Mexico and China.. some of the best safety plate comes from China btw...

any country can make quality products, just cause it has "Made in ____" doesn't mean it's the best, so either the manufacturer needs to step up quality or sell it cheaper..

good example is GM... they pay people $80/hour to install headlamps in a vehicle on top of not having a worthy product to sell, so that leads to a socialized bail out... on the other hand.. BP is a company who has a product we all need, despite the oil leak, they can pay out millions in claims and are correcting the problem without a government bail out...

[spall]

too all of you bashing the union. You do realize you are driving a union built car? As for making 40.00 an hour maybe you should get your facts right. I work for GM and we don't make 40 an hour.

[arod55]

Bought a SS white emblem, it was made in Spain. I had posted a thread about my purchase of American Racing wheel for my 55 Chevy, they were made in China. If I had known that I would have never bought them. Someone on the thread stated that 70% of wheel are now made in China. I agree about Wal-mart I just don't go there anymore. Now I am in the habit of checking label's when I buy cloths.

[Wilburbeest]

Originally Posted by arod55

Bought a SS white emblem, it was made in Spain. I had posted a thread about my purchase of American Racing wheel for my 55 Chevy, they were made in China. If I had known that I would have never bought them. Someone on the thread stated that 70% of wheel are now made in China. I agree about Wal-mart I just don't go there anymore. Now I am in the habit of checking label's when I buy cloths.

Its true that most wheels are made in china now, which I honestly find surprising! American Racing.....made in china....how ****ed is that? The sad part is the price point you have to get to in order to get something American made. Not because of the labor costs or anything like that so much as that it seems like about the only time most wheels are not made in china anymore is if they're high dollar forged rims like CCW, Budnik, etc. I ordered some Ruff Racing 281s which I found were unfortunately made in china also.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Number 3

My guess........about 5 minutes after it's too late.

Add to the Chinese list the following Camaro accessories:

Heritage Grille, the most sought-after GM part out there...available 15 months after SEMA '08 unveiling...

21" Wheels...including the "Junior" wheels...the longest-anticipated part that'll finally be available 24 months after SEMA '08 "preview"...

[Hicompression]

Originally Posted by spall

As for making 40.00 an hour maybe you should get your facts right. I work for GM and we don't make 40 an hour.

Depends on your labor grade and seniority.

[spall]

Originally Posted by Hicompression

Depends on your labor grade and seniority.

well the previous post said that people putting wheels on get 40 an hour and that is not true. Skilled trades might get up to 40 but the workers on the assembly line don't make 40 an hour.I have 10 ten years in and am at the top pay rate and i make well less then 40 an hour. Like i said people should learn the facts first. But whatever everyone has there own views. i am proud to be a GM employee and proud to be in the union. I do how ever get very tired of hearing people who think they know what we make or what goes on inside the plant acting like they do. like i said you are driving a union built car, be proud of your car and the hard workers that built it..

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by spall

too all of you bashing the union. You do realize you are driving a union built car? As for making 40.00 an hour maybe you should get your facts right. I work for GM and we don't make 40 an hour.

I bet when you factor in your benefits you are getting really close to $40 an hour.