Chinese components

[dmiller66]

Unions are not at fault. American corporate greed is to blame.

[mastertypodemon]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Sounds like a smart move. If you make a widget and have to pay a lot of taxes, a lot of medical insurance, a lot of union wages plus pension plans, and other benefits to a million employees, while some other company overseas doesn't have to pay any of that stuff, your company is going to go out of business when your widget cost more for you to build than the other company sells their widget for.

If you have 100,000 employees and you can save $1000 per year on each employee (that's about $0.50 an hour) by giving the job to someone else, then you just earned your $100,000,000 salary for the year!

Don't forget also that without unions, you don't have to worry about strikes. Just the thought of a strike can bring some companies down.

[mastertypodemon]

Originally Posted by dmiller66

Unions are not at fault. American corporate greed is to blame.

Unions are at fault. When they first formed, they did good for their people. Once OSHA and other federal agencies came about, Unions were not needed to police companies. But they persisted and continuously demanded more and more or else they'd strike and shut down the factories.

Corporate greed also counts too. But then how come the "foreign" companies like Toyota and Honda who also build in America don't have to pay their people near as much as the "American" companies?

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by mulehead7

No, but we can pay a CEO $100 million a year to ship all of our jobs over there...JackA$$!

No, blame it on the government who make things cost more with various laws, regulations, which include the union laws which allow them to be what they are today. The CEO making 100 million is nothing compared to all the other factors. And the CEO isn't the bad guy. If the stock holders don't want to pay a CEO that much, and the company is losing money, well then the board will get rid of the CEO.

But generally speaking, if you don't like the company you work for then QUIT. When in the heck does a group of people tell their employer what to pay them? It's like a kid telling his parents no and demanding things from their parents. We don't live in a country where people are being abused, where people in these positions are underpaid. If you don't like your job then quit. If no one takes the position, well then they will raise the wage. It call having a free market, which we do not live in today.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by mastertypodemon

Corporate greed also counts too. But then how come the "foreign" companies like Toyota and Honda who also build in America don't have to pay their people near as much as the "American" companies?

Yes but corporate greed is good. It makes a company work harder to get your money. If they didn't care about profits, then they wouldn't care about making you happy since they don't care about your business. But since they are greedy they want your money so they do what they can to make you happy so you will spend your money with them. If they suck, then they should fail. But they don't suck, then they should flourish. It's how the free market works, which we are far from.

Originally Posted by dmiller66

Unions are not at fault. American corporate greed is to blame.

Corporate greed is why you see so many things advance in technology as you do today. It is why you see so many business flourish in the US. It is why YOU, yourself work every day. You are greedy about getting paid. if you aren't greedy, well then you need to sell your Camaro...actually give it away and find yourself a cheap car or no car at all. Then make sure you give away almost all your money but just enough to barely get by.

I can tell you I am greedy. I am greedy at work. I only work at my job to get paid. I don't work here for charity. I want to get paid more then I do now. I also want my company to to better each year as it benefits me. It employs me and the more I make, the more I can spend on goods and services. Which then also employs other people who are also greedy on making more money for themselves to better their own lives. Greed is good. I also do give a lot of money away too. Most greedy people who are 'rich' do. The people who don't give a lot of money away are the ones who want to spend YOUR money for you. They want to make you give more money away but they want to keep their own.

[mastertypodemon]

Corporate greed also answers to stock holders. Don't forget that problem as well. If the stock holders weren't so damn greedy, then the corporation could be a bit less greedy.

[hot_rod]

>>>>It's a good thing that we have a lot of smart people in washington working to correct this issue, right?
__________________
LOL

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

60% of the 2010 Camaro is made in the US and Canada with 24% from Mexico.

60% of the 2010 Mustang is made in the US and Canada.

The make up of the remaining 16% and 40% will be a little harder to nail down.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Where did you get that info? Very interesting seeing how that's the same company that builds the tranny in the camaro ss. I thought they where built in mexico. (like that's any better)

I think the 2011 Mustang is now 65% US/Canadian parts.

Yes, the 2011 Mustang GT transmission comes from China. (I found that info on the sticker of one I found on a lot). The 2010 5-speed was a Tremec, but the new 2011 6-speed is made by Getrag.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by hot_rod

>>>>It's a good thing that we have a lot of smart people in washington working to correct this issue, right?
__________________
LOL

Yeah, look how confident I am.

I can see what that correction will entail now.

[Blackbean]

When a person loses their job to outsourcing, they lose their source of income.Now, they don't have any way to buy those widgets that your company saved a ton on , manufacturing them in China.
No income means less income tax paid into the government,ditto on the corporate tax.Federal revenue falls,and everone in business says "hooray." Then Katrina,or an oil spill, or social security happens, and you hear,"where is the federal government?"The government borrows money from the Chinese, to pay the bills,then the uproar begins again.
Consumer spending equals 70% of our economy.Take the money away from the consumer,and you have a recession.The ONLY people who make out by outsourcing ,are the rich.
90% of all the money is made by 5% of the people.
I'm only saying this to make people think,to buy a Camaro you have to have a job and money.So instead of you having vin#00001 ,maybe the worker in Peking will be driving it.

[el ess A]

The Midnight Silver paint on the RS wheels is from China. All exterior emblems are made in Korea. Brakes are Italian on SS. I'm sure there's other Chinesium materials on the car.

They call it "competitive advantage". It's how it's going to be. Get used to it or go into a service industry like an A/C technician or dry cleaners. Service is one thing that can't be easily outsourced like manufacturing.

[Number 3]

Start a little conversation about Chinese made auto parts and throw in a whole lot of other goodies. Good thread with the potential to be shut down at any moment.

But if I may comment as well.

First, as I've publicly stated on this site, anyone that works for GM and doesn't feel accountable for the bankruptcy is kidding themselves. We all had a nickle in it.

Financially, GM could no longer sustain the costs of paying pensions and healthcare to 400,000 retirees and their dependants while only having (at that time) 125,000 workers. That would be the equivalent of starting up a lawn mowing company with 6 people mowing at full salary and another 18 sitting at home collecting reduced pay and health insurance for themselves and family. It is a business model that just can't work. Is that the fault of the union? No, not entirely, but it took a complete collapse of the company before there were significant discussions on parity with the foreign competition. And frankly I'm not sure the union could have handled it anyother way, at least based on their history here in the U.S.. If you want to win the transplants in Tenn. and Alabama by telling them you exist to defend and protect the worker, you aren't setting a good case if you give in too early.

Management, sure lots to go around there as well. But "shipping jobs overseas" started with shipping jobs South of the border. And that was all done for lower labor rates. Material costs are the same anywhere you go, but the labor to make that raw material is something you can control. And if the labor costs had remained competitive, GM, Ford and Chrysler would have kept that work here in the U.S. as would the suppliers that make the parts. Now could we have a discussion on moving work simply to keep it out of the influence of the UAW? Sure there might even have been some of that as well.

You have to remember, too, salaried employees have taken HUGE cuts over the years. So all of the UAW should not focus on the top few managers, but realize that your salary brothers and sisters took giant pension cuts, they basically pay their first $5,000 in health care costs when they retire and lost health care all together after 65 and that is for those that hired in a longggg time ago. Me? I can work till I'm 65 and maybe get the same pension a UAW retire gets TODAY. But I won't get any health care and life insurance is ZERO. And you know what? There are a lot of people that would line up to get the deal I have. So we have to always keep that in perspective.

Product decisions? Could GM have done better there? Sure, no doubt. But prior to bankruptcy GM was selling a huge amount of vehicles. But by then, not enough to pay the bills and service the debt, which was crushing. GM simply imploded and there was simply nothing more that could be done.

Our government? Now IN MY OPINION that is where most of the problem lies. Of course you have to give credit to the UAW (and others) for the advancement of the standard of living in our country. Good pay, benefits, vacation etc. But our government had no real long term vision on how to protect that and sustain it.

But at the end of the day, it is simply us. In Japan and Germany, both countries with Unions (VERY Storng in Germany) and companies that are also trying to make huge profits to satisfy banks and stock holders. But they have a huge home market advantage. People don't and won't buy foreign goods, and if they do, there better be an assembly plant making it in their country. A friend who worked in Germany told me once, half joking (I hope), that in Germany, your plastic picnic forks better say "made in Germany" on them.

As a side note, when I traveled to Germany 2 years ago for GM, I looked over and saw an empty Walmart store. I was told it was closing as Germans wouldn't shop there. Apparently the "we offer the lowest prices" model didn't matter to Germans.

So if the American people won't pay a premium for "made in the USA", then businesses have to be cost competitive to survive. And for a business, surviving means making profits. Just like every other company in the world. It's not a dirty word, it's just a fact.

So everbody is playing a part. I like to say the American people chased our textile companies out of business so we coud save .50 on a pair of socks. And fundamentally that is how the American people opperate. We want a deal, the lowest cost and the way for more people to have more stuff is to get the cost down. And back to where we started, the way to get the cost down is to source labor to the lowest cost supplier and that, my friends, at least for the forseeable future is China.

So I guess it's human nature for labor to blame management and management to blame labor. But in my humble opinion, both get full credit as part of the same enterprise, sharing equal amounts of blame. And without a homefield advantage to sustain higher wages and profits, jobs get moved. Sad but also true.

By the way, why can James, Wade and Bosh go looking for contracts that pay them $30 million a year and that's ok. But a when a man or woman responsible for the livelihood for thousands or even hundreds of thousands of workers and retirees gets a huge salary it is reprehensible? Just asking.

[ghazzi1397]

Originally Posted by smhss

I already know from reading that my tail lights, wheels, and (I think) radio came from China. How much more of the Camaro comes from China?
Out of curiousity, anybody know any of the same info about the Mustang?

Yes, I am the "weirdo" who paws through the hardware store looking at the "Made in..." labels.

I know this may be a touchy subject; apologies in advance.

You're not weirdo....i do the same, in hardware stores and almost everywhere else. If i find a chinese screwdriver and an American one, ill buy the made in USA one even if i have to pay a buck or two extra..in cars you just have to go by the brand (Chevrolet over Toyota) all car companies have parts from all over the world, the point is where the profit goes at the end, does it go to an American company or elsewhere, that's why I buy from American companies regardless of specific parts. Sorry if i went of topic a little

[Dr Jkel]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Not too long ago...such an idea would have had a person thrown out the front door for being a selfish prick. Of course...that was back when we had a strong sense of national pride in ourselves and brother (and sister) citizens...I wish I knew how to get that back....:(

The problem won't ever be solved. Take for example this wonderful car.Some people acted totally retarded about delays in shipping productions etc....Today society has become instant gratification, with no respect, no morales and no pride. Just go to a Wlamart, Mall or any other public place and you will see it in action.

When you have 16 yr olds having kids and are proud of it then to only get pregnant quickly after the first, what does that say. When teachers can't paddle, or even tell a kids what to do, no school prayer, no pledge of allegience, this was the beginning of the end.

I too my friend wished that times were like years from the past, but unfortunately I think those days are gone. I just wonder how long these new days will be allowed to go on. JMHO