Fbodfather - Pontiac question

[storm79]

hhmmm well i personally don't think they would kill pontiac because well at least where i live there are a crap loads of pontiacs especially the g6 and grand prixs, there are also many '09 vibes driving around, but thats around here idk about anywhere else, but i still have yet to figure out why they replaced the grand prix with the g8 because it would have seemed like a more logical choice to just add the g8 instead of killing off a grand prix, make the grand prix just with a v6 and have a g8 with v6 and v8 ya know? idk just my .02 cents

[Robert91RS]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

MY PERSONAL OPINION: I think it's high time Americans started to think about what's in the best interests of the country as a whole - rather than "what's in the best interests of ME!" -

+10000

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Iroczlover

GMC you guys have to remember is the Professional grade stuff & their fleet trucks/vans/SUV/Crossovers. Yes while I understand that they can use the chevy side to fleet stuff out (which they do) but GMC just is better for most companies. I drive a Chevy Fleet style van.

That is all that GMC sells. They dont sell cars they sell TRUCKS.

Believe me the truck side of things are not dead or will never die out.

Pontiac is getting new life breathed back in to it with the G8 srpots truck (which I think should be on the chevy side, but its not up to the buyers)

Come on my freind, GMC is just nothing more than unnecessary white collar jobs. Think of all the duplication going on between Chevy and GMC when it comes to marketing, accounting, administration, etc. I drive a GMC Yukon and it is nothing more than a Tahoe with different badges. They share suspension, drivetrain, interior and exterior components and run down the same assembly line, one after the other.

That whole BS about GMC being "Professional Grade" is just marketing hooey. If GM wants to save millions, get rid of GMC!!!!

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

getting rid of a brand is frighteningly expensive......

We have contracts with our dealers - and when you 'eliminate' a Division - you open up quite a can of worms -- we are still working thru the closing of the Oldsmobile Division.

Pontiac has a reason for being - the REAL question is: where is the future of the American Auto Industry?

MY PERSONAL OPINION: I think it's high time Americans started to think about what's in the best interests of the country as a whole - rather than "what's in the best interests of ME!" -

A lot of you are in agreement without thinking about what has been posted on this board and what fbodfather means.

The American auto industry is not what it used to be. The V8 is not a dominant force, and the SUV-toting soccer mom is going the way of the station wagon. We, as performance car enthusiasts, are not going to like a lot of changes that GM has to make to keep with the new market. Americans want fuel efficiency because performance cars are known for having low efficiency. We look at 23 mpg L99s thinking, "That's great for a muscle car! My old V8 got 12 mpg!" Mary Soccer Mom sees 23 mpg from Chevrolet and buys a Kia. American brands have to do more than sell models that have more fuel efficiency. They also have to change the perception that American brands have low efficiency on the whole. That's why some performance-oriented brands, like Pontiac, have to also sell cars that have little performance, like the G3. If they can promote that vehicle, they can keep up with the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris, cars that are becoming popular among buyers who want to have a unique look but don't care so much about power.

Most buyers aren't like us. We love big V8s, show up at the track, and respect a wide variety of cars. Most buyers, in contrast, love getting to work on time with a priority on low gas consumption, show up at the movie theatre with a date, and don't follow car manufacturers at all. We know about the GTR. They know about the Maxima. Basically, I'm saying that GM needs to focus on making American cars standard, respectable average cars rather than just aspiring performance machines. GM has learned to dominate the performance division, but there's a lot of perception-changing to do in the economy department.

Of course, you're going to say, "GM has cars, like the Cobalt XFE, that outdo anything Asia can throw at it. Isn't GM already the best company for these kinds of cars?" You're right that GM is ahead of the curve by implementing fuel efficient models, but the perception that GM represents performance V8s needs to change. GM can still make those cars, but GM needs a green image to make people think that it is 100% focussed on buyers who worry about the price of gas, even if gas is on the decline. Americans now know about the quality of cars like the CTS and Malibu; however, they don't see the Aveo or Cobalt XFE as viable alternatives to the fortwo or Camry Hybrid.

I'm basically saying that the best thing for performance enthusiasts isn't always the best thing for American auto companies. They can't afford to build a bunch of new muscle cars that we've been discussing, like a new Chevelle, because those defy the perception of a green GM, and GM has to build cars, like the G3, even if it is a rebadge because it contributes to the green image. That image is what will save GM.

[lalometalik]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

MY PERSONAL OPINION: I think it's high time Americans started to think about what's in the best interests of the country as a whole - rather than "what's in the best interests of ME!" -

the World for that matter...

[Design1stCode2nd]

GM doesn't have the money to close any divison, existing franchise laws make it prohibitively expensive, even though they have probably 5 brands too many.

A GM with 2-3 brands and half as many dealers would be a much stronger GM.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

we are still working thru the closing of the Oldsmobile Division.

At the risk of going slightly off topic here, did ANYONE at GM do their homework before the pulled the plug on Olds?????? Of course there would be mass lawsuits from dealers - some dealers were probably a hundred years old! I'd really like to know the business case that was made for this decision, and if the end result was even close to what was to be expected.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by fastball

At the risk of going slightly off topic here, did ANYONE at GM do their homework before the pulled the plug on Olds?????? Of course there would be mass lawsuits from dealers - some dealers were probably a hundred years old! I'd really like to know the business case that was made for this decision, and if the end result was even close to what was to be expected.

I believe one of the terms for the brand was "stuffy." Oldsmobile was not profitable at the time, and GM had to cut costs somehow. Today's problems aren't the only problems that GM has faced in recent years. I wish GMC had gone, but SUVs and trucks were selling very well at the time.

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

I miss the 80's era Cutlass. Used to have an 83 with a V8.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by fastball

At the risk of going slightly off topic here, did ANYONE at GM do their homework before the pulled the plug on Olds?????? Of course there would be mass lawsuits from dealers - some dealers were probably a hundred years old! I'd really like to know the business case that was made for this decision, and if the end result was even close to what was to be expected.

So? Are you saying they should keep Hummer as well because they might get sued by dealerships? Pay the GMC dealers off or give them a Chevy dealership that just handles trucks. Ford paid off every Mercury dealership in Canada when they got rid of Mercury up here. Chrysler also did something similar with Plymouth.

There is a solution for everything and in this case, complacency is not one of them. Whatever the cost, pales in comparison to what it costs to keep GMC going.

[Lucas718]

Looks like Pontiac will be killing off the G8 after only a short 5 year run. With the G8 going away, that doesn't leave much to get excited about.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/23/r...in-five-years/

[radz28]

I just read that little blurb... Scary because that's what platform Camaro is built on (okay - well Zeta II, but what happens when there's no Zetta I?...)