i find it very annoying...

[305pride]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

WHY did they build crap-ass cars?!?? Hmm? Because they were inept? Because they just didn't care about the business anymore?

No. They built crap-ass cars because they were trying desperately to compete with the Japanese who could build average cars for far, far less! And the only way they could do that given the circumstances was to cut corners and "thin out" the product. Why? Because they entered the market at a time when America valued work more than money...when companies were willing to compensate their employees in times of prosperity. This sense of comradery put American business at a disadvantage, since off-shore companies had access to dirt-cheap labor...it choked the life out of American business and manufacturing, and I'm NOT talking about the auto business alone, here.

Did they make mistakes along the way? Heck yeah. We're human, it's what we do...but to try and pin EVERYTHING on poor business practices and shoddy workmanship irritates me to no end because it's only a small part of the story. The larger, and more relevant facet to this "gem" is that of the US's trade policy not properly protecting our businesses...and our society's willingness to complain but do nothing.No one is perfect. But don't pin the blame completely on ONE part of the equation.
WE helped to kill Industry, by being naive and all happy-go-lucky about foreign trade. WE helped to kill Industry by not choosing our products based on origin, rather by the penny we could "save" by buying the cheap crap. THEY (imports) helped kill Industry, by using unfair advantages. The products of the late 80s and 90s was the Auto Industry struggling to survive as all these factors slowly bled them to death.

Now, at the end of this 'revolution', I ask America at large...was the penny you saved worth it?




Finally...It wasn't a bailout like the banks recieved, it was a loan with strings attached...it's being paid back (and will be in full by July if all goes well), and this year the stock will begin to be sold off.

What I find AWFULLY interesting...is that America saved many American companies last year...we finally did what we've been bitching about doing for years (combating the import invasion and helping our own)...and yet still...we still bitch.

It's the ultimate irony I've noticed these past 6 months...our terrible, outrageous drive to contradict.


/Soap Box



....I apologize....but I needed to finally put that down into words.

lol no need to apologize

[DGthe3]

Dragoneye, why don't you tell us what you really think. lol

[CatiaJockey]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Dragoneye, why don't you tell us what you really think. lol

Dragoneye.... for what its worth..... I like the way you think! It would be nice to know that a lot more of your generation felt the way you do.

[Ghost of Vincent Price]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

you shouldnt because lets be honest. they deserve it. I think its great that they are making great cars now and started making payments for the "loan". but they did deserve that nick name.


but dont worry, give it a few years or decade and people wont remember it

Go figure, two ford guys hop in here to argue otherwise. LOL.

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

please. they deserved it. and honestly they deserved to die with those stupid business practices of the early 2000's and late 90's. they built crap ass cars with the exception of the suburban and other suv's. the camaro was a POS during those final 4th gen years and their other cars like the aztek were just a joke.

only reason for justifying to save them was the jobs.

that being said.......did i support the bailout? yes i did. but your damn right it gives me the right to call them government motors for a while longer.

Remember the only mustang ford made that could beat an fbody from 1993-2002 was a 2003 and 2004 Cobra. I find that a little sad. A 1998 z28 could still beat up a 2010 mustang gt. Good thing its only a POS or ford would of really been in trouble.

But hey, to each his own. Just dont call 4th gen fbodies a POS, especially when you dont know what your talking about.

[5thGenOwner]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

WHY did they build crap-ass cars?!?? Hmm? Because they were inept? Because they just didn't care about the business anymore?

No. They built crap-ass cars because they were trying desperately to compete with the Japanese who could build average cars for far, far less! And the only way they could do that given the circumstances was to cut corners and "thin out" the product. Why? Because they entered the market at a time when America valued work more than money...when companies were willing to compensate their employees in times of prosperity. This sense of comradery put American business at a disadvantage, since off-shore companies had access to dirt-cheap labor...it choked the life out of American business and manufacturing, and I'm NOT talking about the auto business alone, here.

Did they make mistakes along the way? Heck yeah. We're human, it's what we do...but to try and pin EVERYTHING on poor business practices and shoddy workmanship irritates me to no end because it's only a small part of the story. The larger, and more relevant facet to this "gem" is that of the US's trade policy not properly protecting our businesses...and our society's willingness to complain but do nothing.No one is perfect. But don't pin the blame completely on ONE part of the equation.
WE helped to kill Industry, by being naive and all happy-go-lucky about foreign trade. WE helped to kill Industry by not choosing our products based on origin, rather by the penny we could "save" by buying the cheap crap. THEY (imports) helped kill Industry, by using unfair advantages. The products of the late 80s and 90s was the Auto Industry struggling to survive as all these factors slowly bled them to death.

Now, at the end of this 'revolution', I ask America at large...was the penny you saved worth it?




Finally...It wasn't a bailout like the banks recieved, it was a loan with strings attached...it's being paid back (and will be in full by July if all goes well), and this year the stock will begin to be sold off.

What I find AWFULLY interesting...is that America saved many American companies last year...we finally did what we've been bitching about doing for years (combating the import invasion and helping our own)...and yet still...we still bitch.

It's the ultimate irony I've noticed these past 6 months...our terrible, outrageous drive to contradict.


/Soap Box



....I apologize....but I needed to finally put that down into words.

I would inject... that the compensation that was given "in times of prosperity" was without much, if any, foresight. Or with the disillusion that the prosperity would never end.

As I am for any company sharing it's prosperity with it's employees (I love profit sharing), the employees can not be such a drain on the company that it can not compete.

Again, this is just in addition to what you've said; there are many pieces to the crumbled puzzle.

[CHVY-2SS]

Originally Posted by AngryAmish

Presidents almost exclusively ride in Cadillacs. I think there has been one Ford on the last 50 years. A Lincoln.

Actually...the only thing Cadillac on the Presidents Limo is the emblem. FYI

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by a_Username

This is the defining post of this thread.

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by 305pride

lol no need to apologize

Originally Posted by CatiaJockey

Dragoneye.... for what its worth..... I like the way you think! It would be nice to know that a lot more of your generation felt the way you do.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Dragoneye, why don't you tell us what you really think. lol

I haven't gone off like that in a looonnnngggg time...

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

I would inject... that the compensation that was given "in times of prosperity" was without much, if any, foresight. Or with the disillusion that the prosperity would never end.

As I am for any company sharing it's prosperity with it's employees (I love profit sharing), the employees can not be such a drain on the company that it can not compete.

Again, this is just in addition to what you've said; there are many pieces to the crumbled puzzle.

I would not disagree.

[Revo1]

Yeah, that bugs me too. Especially considering GM is returning the money...

[comiskeybum]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Vincent Price

Go figure, two ford guys hop in here to argue otherwise. LOL.



Remember the only mustang ford made that could beat an fbody from 1993-2002 was a 2003 and 2004 Cobra. I find that a little sad. A 1998 z28 could still beat up a 2010 mustang gt. Good thing its only a POS or ford would of really been in trouble.

But hey, to each his own. Just dont call 4th gen fbodies a POS, especially when you dont know what your talking about.

dont know what im talking about? umm i owned one and it gave me nothing but problems. my current mustang out handles that POS 1996 camaro I had in every way. I hated that car. thank god i only had it for 2 years.

yanno what the dealer gave me for it? $2k. the POS didnt even have good trade value cuz it had so many repairs done to it.

even if i didnt own a 4th gen camaro at one point. dont ever say i dont know what im talking about cuz u have no idea what i know

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

dont know what im talking about? umm i owned one and it gave me nothing but problems. my current mustang out handles that POS 1996 camaro I had in every way. I hated that car. thank god i only had it for 2 years.

yanno what the dealer gave me for it? $2k. the POS didnt even have good trade value cuz it had so many repairs done to it.

even if i didnt own a 4th gen camaro at one point. dont ever say i dont know what im talking about cuz u have no idea what i know

So then you are THE authority on 4th gens? From your 2 year experience with a lemon you can definitively say that the entire run of 4th gen Camaros, that they are all terrible cars? Does that mean the Grand Am, all of them from 1999-2005, are awesome because I haven't really had a problem with mine since I bought it?

[Ghost of Vincent Price]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

dont know what im talking about? umm i owned one and it gave me nothing but problems. my current mustang out handles that POS 1996 camaro I had in every way. I hated that car. thank god i only had it for 2 years.

yanno what the dealer gave me for it? $2k. the POS didnt even have good trade value cuz it had so many repairs done to it.

even if i didnt own a 4th gen camaro at one point. dont ever say i dont know what im talking about cuz u have no idea what i know

You said they were shit for the final 4th gen years...yet you owned a 1996...ooohh an lt1. You are aware that at 98 they got upgraded

Ever heard of an ls1? Yeah the same motor thats been beating up mustangs since 1998.

My guess is that you still dont know what your talking about too.

[IOM-SS]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Obama drove a Chrysler 300C before he was elected President.

Wonder if it was a 5.8L or 6.2L??? :5thgenvert:

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by IOM-SS

Wonder if it was a 5.8L or 6.2L??? :5thgenvert:

Neither. Engines of that displacement are not available on that car. However, 5.7L and 6.1L are.

[IOM-SS]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

WHY did they build crap-ass cars?!?? Hmm? Because they were inept? Because they just didn't care about the business anymore?

No. They built crap-ass cars because they were trying desperately to compete with the Japanese who could build average cars for far, far less! And the only way they could do that given the circumstances was to cut corners and "thin out" the product. Why? Because they entered the market at a time when America valued work more than money...when companies were willing to compensate their employees in times of prosperity. This sense of comradery put American business at a disadvantage, since off-shore companies had access to dirt-cheap labor...it choked the life out of American business and manufacturing, and I'm NOT talking about the auto business alone, here.

Did they make mistakes along the way? Heck yeah. We're human, it's what we do...but to try and pin EVERYTHING on poor business practices and shoddy workmanship irritates me to no end because it's only a small part of the story. The larger, and more relevant facet to this "gem" is that of the US's trade policy not properly protecting our businesses...and our society's willingness to complain but do nothing.No one is perfect. But don't pin the blame completely on ONE part of the equation.

WE helped to kill Industry, by being naive and all happy-go-lucky about foreign trade. WE helped to kill Industry by not choosing our products based on origin, rather by the penny we could "save" by buying the cheap crap. THEY (imports) helped kill Industry, by using unfair advantages. The products of the late 80s and 90s was the Auto Industry struggling to survive as all these factors slowly bled them to death.

Now, at the end of this 'revolution', I ask America at large...was the penny you saved worth it?




Finally...It wasn't a bailout like the banks recieved, it was a loan with strings attached...it's being paid back (and will be in full by July if all goes well), and this year the stock will begin to be sold off.

What I find AWFULLY interesting...is that America saved many American companies last year...we finally did what we've been bitching about doing for years (combating the import invasion and helping our own)...and yet still...still we bitch.

It's the ultimate irony I've noticed these past 6 months...our terrible, outrageous drive to contradict.


/Soap Box



....I apologize....but I needed to finally put that down into words.

Dragoneye I agree with you wholeheartedly

Let us see environmentalists tree hugging nazis chaning themselves to trees= Government making laws that the auto industry is unable to rewspond to = poor crappy cars finally the technology exists that a car, OUR CAMAROS, that is acceptiable to everyone. Al Gore piss off tell the people back east about global warming right now they will laugh in your face Mammoth Mountain has six feet of snow where is this global warming that we are all supposed to be worried about??? :5thgenvert: