i find it very annoying...

[comiskeybum]

please. they deserved it. and honestly they deserved to die with those stupid business practices of the early 2000's and late 90's. they built crap ass cars with the exception of the suburban and other suv's. the camaro was a POS during those final 4th gen years and their other cars like the aztek were just a joke.

only reason for justifying to save them was the jobs.

that being said.......did i support the bailout? yes i did. but your damn right it gives me the right to call them government motors for a while longer.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

please. they deserved it. and honestly they deserved to die with those stupid business practices of the early 2000's and late 90's. they built crap ass cars with the exception of the suburban and other suv's. the camaro was a POS during those final 4th gen years and their other cars like the aztek were just a joke.

only reason for justifying to save them was the jobs.

that being said.......did i support the bailout? yes i did. but your damn right it gives me the right to call them government motors for a while longer.

And Ford didn't? If I recall correctly Ford wasn't putting out the best cars ever during that time period either.

Bottom line: American cars sucked for a very long time. If you knew how to keep a car properly maintained, they would last you a while, but there's a reason so many people defected to the import brands.

[derklug]

Ford's only salvation is that they realized they had a problem first. They set up the reconstruction plan and lined up the financing before the crap hit the fan. This year Ford has a 12 billion balloon payment due. Couldn't have picked a better time for Toyota to crash and burn(literally).

[1bad65]

Ford also benefitted from the bailouts in terms of sales. People who buy American, but were upset at the bailouts of GM and Chrysler, went to Ford.

[AngryAmish]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

please. they deserved it. and honestly they deserved to die with those stupid business practices of the early 2000's and late 90's. they built crap ass cars with the exception of the suburban and other suv's. the camaro was a POS during those final 4th gen years and their other cars like the aztek were just a joke.

only reason for justifying to save them was the jobs.

that being said.......did i support the bailout? yes i did. but your damn right it gives me the right to call them government motors for a while longer.

The thing I don't get about it is this. They weren't the only company to take money, yet I hear maybe 1/3 the anger at GM directed elsewhere. And the .GOV isn't getting most of that money back either.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

please. they deserved it. and honestly they deserved to die with those stupid business practices of the early 2000's and late 90's. they built crap ass cars with the exception of the suburban and other suv's. the camaro was a POS during those final 4th gen years and their other cars like the aztek were just a joke.

only reason for justifying to save them was the jobs.

that being said.......did i support the bailout? yes i did. but your damn right it gives me the right to call them government motors for a while longer.

Styling wise they were.

[305pride]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

please. they deserved it. and honestly they deserved to die with those stupid business practices of the early 2000's and late 90's. they built crap ass cars with the exception of the suburban and other suv's. the camaro was a POS during those final 4th gen years and their other cars like the aztek were just a joke.

only reason for justifying to save them was the jobs.

that being said.......did i support the bailout? yes i did. but your damn right it gives me the right to call them government motors for a while longer.

they were way better then the ones with the iron duke -_-

[Vega]

I agree, its pretty aggrivating...

But a lot of people are ignorent to the whole bailout situation and thats mainly where it comes from (thats not a burn btw, its not something to be offended about i mean im sure there's much more important things in people's lives than what exactly is the financial situation of a car manufacturer LOL) But yeah, people dont understand the difference between a "loan" and a "purchase" and actually after hearing that the first time i wanted to say "yeah okay, so every time you go to the bank for a house loan or car loan im gonna heckle you for being a government-run mule" LOL

[Vega]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

please. they deserved it. and honestly they deserved to die with those stupid business practices of the early 2000's and late 90's. they built crap ass cars with the exception of the suburban and other suv's. the camaro was a POS during those final 4th gen years and their other cars like the aztek were just a joke.

only reason for justifying to save them was the jobs.

that being said.......did i support the bailout? yes i did. but your damn right it gives me the right to call them government motors for a while longer.

Okay so the 4th gens didnt look amazing in most people's eyes, and yeah the interior was shabby, but performance-wise they were nuts, and actually until the 5.0 was released late 4th gen Camaros and Trans Ams would frequently give brand new GT Mustangs a run for their money (and actually win a lot of the time) So i can see where you're coming from styling-wise but performance-wise they desirve lots of kudos for the 4th gen (also to add my personal 2 cents i love the looks of the 98-02 WS6 T/As =D haha)

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Vega

but performance-wise they desirve lots of kudos for the 4th gen (also to add my personal 2 cents i love the looks of the 98-02 WS6 T/As =D haha)

LS1 fbody's are still spanking Mustangs to this day. Won't change until the new Coyote 5.0 is released.

[AZCamaroFan]

I was watching Fox news two saturdays back. They did a story on GM dealerships being forced to close. This news girl, Julie Banderas gets all upset. "we gave them money, can't we force them to keep those dealerships open?" Obviously she's not listening to Beck or Hannity.
Yeah, we can tell them to keep them open, keep overextending, keep losing money.
I'm really tired of the government motors thing. How much money do we pass out around the world every year, but we can't help out GM.
One thing that is interesting is lately i've heard people say we should "have let Chrysler fail". I don't know if it's because Chrysler is lame, but i don't hear people saying GM should have been let go as much as i do Chrysler.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

please. they deserved it. and honestly they deserved to die with those stupid business practices of the early 2000's and late 90's. they built crap ass cars with the exception of the suburban and other suv's. the camaro was a POS during those final 4th gen years and their other cars like the aztek were just a joke.

only reason for justifying to save them was the jobs.

that being said.......did i support the bailout? yes i did. but your damn right it gives me the right to call them government motors for a while longer.

WHY did they build crap-ass cars?!?? Hmm? Because they were inept? Because they just didn't care about the business anymore?

No. They built crap-ass cars because they were trying desperately to compete with the Japanese who could build average cars for far, far less! And the only way they could do that given the circumstances was to cut corners and "thin out" the product. Why? Because they entered the market at a time when America valued work more than money...when companies were willing to compensate their employees in times of prosperity. This sense of comradery put American business at a disadvantage, since off-shore companies had access to dirt-cheap labor...it choked the life out of American business and manufacturing, and I'm NOT talking about the auto business alone, here.

Did they make mistakes along the way? Heck yeah. We're human, it's what we do...but to try and pin EVERYTHING on poor business practices and shoddy workmanship irritates me to no end because it's only a small part of the story. The larger, and more relevant facet to this "gem" is that of the US's trade policy not properly protecting our businesses...and our society's willingness to complain but do nothing.No one is perfect. But don't pin the blame completely on ONE part of the equation.

WE helped to kill Industry, by being naive and all happy-go-lucky about foreign trade. WE helped to kill Industry by not choosing our products based on origin, rather by the penny we could "save" by buying the cheap crap. THEY (imports) helped kill Industry, by using unfair advantages. The products of the late 80s and 90s was the Auto Industry struggling to survive as all these factors slowly bled them to death.

Now, at the end of this 'revolution', I ask America at large...was the penny you saved worth it?




Finally...It wasn't a bailout like the banks recieved, it was a loan with strings attached...it's being paid back (and will be in full by July if all goes well), and this year the stock will begin to be sold off.

What I find AWFULLY interesting...is that America saved many American companies last year...we finally did what we've been bitching about doing for years (combating the import invasion and helping our own)...and yet still...still we bitch.

It's the ultimate irony I've noticed these past 6 months...our terrible, outrageous drive to contradict.


/Soap Box



....I apologize....but I needed to finally put that down into words.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

WHY did they build crap-ass cars?!?? Hmm? Because they were inept? Because they just didn't care about the business anymore?

No. They built crap-ass cars because they were trying desperately to compete with the Japanese who could build average cars for far, far less! And the only way they could do that given the circumstances was to cut corners and "thin out" the product. Why? Because they entered the market at a time when America valued work more than money...when companies were willing to compensate their employees in times of prosperity. This sense of comradery put American business at a disadvantage, since off-shore companies had access to dirt-cheap labor...it choked the life out of American business and manufacturing, and I'm NOT talking about the auto business alone, here.

Did they make mistakes along the way? Heck yeah. We're human, it's what we do...but to try and pin EVERYTHING on poor business practices and shoddy workmanship irritates me to no end because it's only a small part of the story. The larger, and more relevant facet to this "gem" is that of the US's trade policy not properly protecting our businesses...and our society's willingness to complain but do nothing.No one is perfect. But don't pin the blame completely on ONE part of the equation.

WE helped to kill Industry, by being naive and all happy-go-lucky about foreign trade. WE helped to kill Industry by not choosing our products based on origin, rather by the penny we could "save" by buying the cheap crap. THEY (imports) helped kill Industry, by using unfair advantages. The products of the late 80s and 90s was the Auto Industry struggling to survive as all these factors slowly bled them to death.

Now, at the end of this 'revolution', I ask America at large...was the penny you saved worth it?




Finally...It wasn't a bailout like the banks recieved, it was a loan with strings attached...it's being paid back (and will be in full by July if all goes well), and this year the stock will begin to be sold off.

What I find AWFULLY interesting...is that America saved many American companies last year...we finally did what we've been bitching about doing for years (combating the import invasion and helping our own)...and yet still...still, we bitch.

It's the ultimate irony I've noticed these past 6 months...our terrible, outrageous drive to contradict.


/Soap Box



....I apologize....but I needed to finally put that down into words.

This is the defining post of this thread.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by a_Username

This is the defining post of this thread.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!