The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Cobra_Commander

Yeah I had a 2009 Corvette, sold it when I got engaged. Got a 2010 Camaro SS, sold it when I saw this car! No I sold it in Nov. ust didn't do it for me. I refuse to wait for a Z28 if there really is going to be one? I already contacted my dealer earlier this month and told them I wanted a Grabber Blue with White Stripes! SVT Performance Pack for me too please! By the way this is my first post I am new here and I must say I am not here to start trouble I respect the Camaro, always have, but it was time for CHANGE and I don't mean the Obama kind!

Because you're new, I'm going to make an exception, one time, regarding your politcal comment. They are scrutinized heavily.

Originally Posted by ron10

I LOVE THESE PERFORMANCE WARS BETWEEN THE BIG 3.IT REMINDS ME OF THE OLD DAYS.THAT NEW MUSTANG 5.0,302c.i. IS GOING TO BE STRONG.CAN'T WAIT TO SEE SOME TIME SLIPS.I THINK IT WILL FORCE GM TO PRODUCE THE Z28 OR UPGRADE THE 6.2L.

GT500 is a beast and it keeps getting better. At least GM knows what it's up against

[Cobra_Commander]

Originally Posted by TaylorRyan74

If a Z28 comes out, and has better numbers than the GT500 are you going to get one? lol



I hate the new stripes but I love the wheels

It depends on what kind of numbers. First off the look of the GT500 I prefer, I love the snake look in the front. Love the Camaro look too though. But for some reason the Camaro at certain angles just looks wierd very bloated and oddly shaped. Just my opinion. To me the Z28 is going to be nice but the weight will is going to be a significant amount more than the GT500 if the Z28 is what it is suppossed to be. First off IRS adds weight. Even if it is 100 - 200 lbs lighter than the CTS-V it will still be more considering the GT500 just lost weight. The 2010 GT500 curb weight was 3924 lbs now if it lost 102 lbs from the engine and the car tested had a glass roof which adds approx. 25-30 lbs. according to Ford.

So if the car lost lets just say 102 lbs (engine) + 25 lbs (glass roof option) = 127 lbs. 3924 - 127 = 3797 lbs for the 2011 GT500 curb weight without glass roof. The 2010 Camaro SS has a curb weight of 3860 lbs. so I can only imagine how much more the Z28 will weigh. I'll take a GT500 with 550hp that weighs less than an SS for now. All I'm saying is Z28 better pack more than 556+ HP an extra 6 HP will not make up for the weight. But I am looking foward to the Z28. Chevy needs this car it's no fun opening up Car and Driver and seeing "King of the Hill" next to the GT500 when it did nothing to earn it except go into production.

So please GM build this car already!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Cobra_Commander

It depends on what kind of numbers. First off the look of the GT500 I prefer, I love the snake look in the front. Love the Camaro look too though. But for some reason the Camaro at certain angles just looks wierd very bloated and oddly shaped. Just my opinion. To me the Z28 is going to be nice but the weight will is going to be a significant amount more than the GT500 if the Z28 is what it is suppossed to be. First off IRS adds weight. Even if it is 100 - 200 lbs lighter than the CTS-V it will still be more considering the GT500 just lost weight. The 2010 GT500 curb weight was 3924 lbs now if it lost 102 lbs from the engine and the car tested had a glass roof which adds approx. 25-30 lbs. according to Ford.

So if the car lost lets just say 102 lbs (engine) + 25 lbs (glass roof option) = 127 lbs. 3924 - 127 = 3797 lbs for the 2011 GT500 curb weight without glass roof. The 2010 Camaro SS has a curb weight of 3860 lbs. so I can only imagine how much more the Z28 will weigh. I'll take a GT500 with 550hp that weighs less than an SS for now. All I'm saying is Z28 better pack more than 556+ HP an extra 6 HP will not make up for the weight. But I am looking foward to the Z28. Chevy needs this car it's no fun opening up Car and Driver and seeing "King of the Hill" next to the GT500 when it did nothing to earn it except go into production.

So please GM build this car already!

Don't repeat this but there is ONE angle I'm nor particularly happy with too (but that's fixed with the OEM GFX package).

While there's no argument, from me, regarding the possible weight of Z28, I can only imagine GM will take the strides that it can to try to keep the addition of anymore weight to a minimum. I think we can see some aluminum in the control arms, and HECK, maybe even the front and rear crossmembers. I don't see any major replacment panel weight savings, but think they're going to try to keep the weight down as much as possible. Having said that, Z28 is still going to have it's hands full with the Shelby. I wonder if we're still going to see a SRT8 Challenger to get into this fight too... That would be so awesome!!!

BTW - that's a bad@$$ color

[Cobra_Commander]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Don't repeat this but there is ONE angle I'm nor particularly happy with too (but that's fixed with the OEM GFX package).

While there's no argument, from me, regarding the possible weight of Z28, I can only imagine GM will take the strides that it can to try to keep the addition of anymore weight to a minimum. I think we can see some aluminum in the control arms, and HECK, maybe even the front and rear crossmembers. I don't see any major replacment panel weight savings, but think they're going to try to keep the weight down as much as possible. Having said that, Z28 is still going to have it's hands full with the Shelby. I wonder if we're still going to see a SRT8 Challenger to get into this fight too... That would be so awesome!!!

BTW - that's a bad@$$ color

I hope GM makes strides too. The thing is anytime you start building a car off another car's pltform or design there will be carryovers of parts. I think the CTS-V minus about 150 lbs and a couple of tenths off the clock will be the Z28, at least that's what I'm hoping for even a Corvette Grand Sport in acceleration for the Z28 would be sweet. Sub 4 sec 0-60. Low 12's - High 11's: 1/4 mile time. The truth is there is alot of places to shave weight from in the Camaro but when a model like the Z28 was not going to exist at all and now it is probably I think they will be happy to just put something out there with the Z28 nameplate.

I'm not saying they won't put time and effort into it but GM has so many companies under their branch with so many good models it's just so much easier for them to pick another platform or design and copy it to some extent. I feel strongly that its better they just get a Z28 that's competitive at first and than worry about things like finding places to reduce weight and add more power. Cars are about evolution. But you can't evolve if you don't exist. Right now the GT500 is evolving. Now it's time for GM to let the Z28 exist!


And thanks! The Grabber Blue is the best color ever for a retro muscle car in my opinion. And Dodge better up some ante for the Chally! The problem is what can they do more? I heard they are putting a 6.4L Hemi in the new Charger don't know the HP/TQ but how much better can it be although bigger engine means more weight, and that is not something the Chally can afford to do at all!

[2SS10RS]

Not a fan of mustangs, however the blue color they have for them is good looking

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Cobra_Commander

I hope GM makes strides too. The thing is anytime you start building a car off another car's pltform or design there will be carryovers of parts. I think the CTS-V minus about 150 lbs and a couple of tenths off the clock will be the Z28, at least that's what I'm hoping for even a Corvette Grand Sport in acceleration for the Z28 would be sweet. Sub 4 sec 0-60. Low 12's - High 11's: 1/4 mile time. The truth is there is alot of places to shave weight from in the Camaro but when a model like the Z28 was not going to exist at all and now it is probably I think they will be happy to just put something out there with the Z28 nameplate.

I'm not saying they won't put time and effort into it but GM has so many companies under their branch with so many good models it's just so much easier for them to pick another platform or design and copy it to some extent. I feel strongly that its better they just get a Z28 that's competitive at first and than worry about things like finding places to reduce weight and add more power. Cars are about evolution. But you can't evolve if you don't exist. Right now the GT500 is evolving. Now it's time for GM to let the Z28 exist!


And thanks! The Grabber Blue is the best color ever for a retro muscle car in my opinion. And Dodge better up some ante for the Chally! The problem is what can they do more? I heard they are putting a 6.4L Hemi in the new Charger don't know the HP/TQ but how much better can it be although bigger engine means more weight, and that is not something the Chally can afford to do at all!

I couldn't agree more What you're saying makes total sense. I truly hope that they just don't slap LSA in there with some wheels/tires/facia and such. I'm sure they won't, for the record, but it does seem a little crappy that Ford kinda' did that with the '10 GT500. I'd be a little pizzed if I were those owners, much like the '10 GTs. I totally agree with evolving, but I can't stand getting something out there just to get some money, ya' know? Bring something to the table that's ready to roll and make no excuses.

On the other hand, I can also see it's a lot to ask - develop a car like Z28 in the climate we're in and try to keep costs reasonable. If Z28 were to be competitive with the GT500, I really don't know that they can go too far with weight savings if they want to keep that cost similar. I think it's cheaper to add power, to an extent, but they have to make Z28 more than that; keep the traditionalists as close to happy as reasonable. I think if the can keep the weight close to what it is (assuming LSA is the engine) and improve handling substiantially, they're going to have one Hell of a car.

That's what it was - 6.4L I believe. Hmm... I think I read it was thought that was going to be around 500 HP. That would be too

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 2SSARME

barf

You think you're a dog now???

[Cobra_Commander]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I couldn't agree more What you're saying makes total sense. I truly hope that they just don't slap LSA in there with some wheels/tires/facia and such. I'm sure they won't, for the record, but it does seem a little crappy that Ford kinda' did that with the '10 GT500. I'd be a little pizzed if I were those owners, much like the '10 GTs. I totally agree with evolving, but I can't stand getting something out there just to get some money, ya' know? Bring something to the table that's ready to roll and make no excuses.

On the other hand, I can also see it's a lot to ask - develop a car like Z28 in the climate we're in and try to keep costs reasonable. If Z28 were to be competitive with the GT500, I really don't know that they can go too far with weight savings if they want to keep that cost similar. I think it's cheaper to add power, to an extent, but they have to make Z28 more than that; keep the traditionalists as close to happy as reasonable. I think if the can keep the weight close to what it is (assuming LSA is the engine) and improve handling substiantially, they're going to have one Hell of a car.

That's what it was - 6.4L I believe. Hmm... I think I read it was thought that was going to be around 500 HP. That would be too

Yeah since the Camaro has IRS, which adds weight and cost, they couldn't shave weight with materials if they want to be competitive in price. I work in the auto business so I understand on a corporate level how 1.) keeping costs to a minimum 2.) while making a profit 3.) and keeping consumers somewhat happy is the main goal. Unfortunately out of all of those numbers 1 + 2 always come first when dealing with a corporation. But the truth is it's the only way to keep capitalism alive and without capitalism we wouldn't be the USA!

The handling is probably the easiest thing to fix for the Z28 because GM has so many options, although you wonder if it is that easy. With all the extensive research and development on the V6 and SS I think alot of people expected a much better handler, so who knows if GM can greatly exceed the SS and keep costs reasonable for both sides. We have to remember a Z28 cannot step on the toes of a Vette and the truth is the Vette is due for an extensive redesign including it's suspension and handling. GM is sick of the complaints about the leaf springs and how uncivil they are in real world cituations, because not many people bring their Vette to the track. Keep in mind the average Vette buyer is 55+ years old!

The one plus the GT500 has is it doesn't share much outside of the Mustang line-up. Where as you have the Camaro mixed and sharing off the G8 and CTS. So the GT500 gets a more open minded R&D because Ford doesn't have any models to work off of so it always has to be fresh yet cost efficient. And the GT500 never has to worry about stepping on anyone's toes in the Ford family. The GT500 is Ford's Vette, the halo car of Ford. I mean the GT500 just got the best engine Ford has arguably ever assembled for a sports car the updated 5.4L S/C from the Ford GT their first and last supercar.

And yeah I thought the 6.4L was going to get 500 HP. It's funny 500 HP doesn't seem like alot anymore whne you see our cars being tuned to have over 700+ HP. It's like wathing FOX Business and seeing the stock market and economy with all the Billions and Trillions being talked about than all of a sudden you hear 850 million and your like wow that's chump change! But 550+ HP stock is great even 500 Hp is amazing. But the truth is the Chally needs to go on a diet and a bigger engine was not needed. I guess they want to own one category from us and it's only going to be in displacement! I used to care about displacement till I realized it's not about the size of the engine that counts only the numbers it can produce!

[CoolestCamaro873]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

How was I being critical? I just noted that I did not understand where you were coming from. Now you have explained it, I understand and we can move on.

I apologize I thought you were trying to be criical of me. I have been catching alot of crap on here lately but that is no excuse at all I'm very sorry!

[Scrappy Doo]

Originally Posted by a_Username

*Awaits Garagelogic*

It took 9 posts after yours.

[CoolestCamaro873]

Originally Posted by Cobra_Commander

Yeah since the Camaro has IRS, which adds weight and cost, they couldn't shave weight with materials if they want to be competitive in price. I work in the auto business so I understand on a corporate level how 1.) keeping costs to a minimum 2.) while making a profit 3.) and keeping consumers somewhat happy is the main goal. Unfortunately out of all of those numbers 1 + 2 always come first when dealing with a corporation. But the truth is it's the only way to keep capitalism alive and without capitalism we wouldn't be the USA!

The handling is probably the easiest thing to fix for the Z28 because GM has so many options, although you wonder if it is that easy. With all the extensive research and development on the V6 and SS I think alot of people expected a much better handler, so who knows if GM can greatly exceed the SS and keep costs reasonable for both sides. We have to remember a Z28 cannot step on the toes of a Vette and the truth is the Vette is due for an extensive redesign including it's suspension and handling. GM is sick of the complaints about the leaf springs and how uncivil they are in real world cituations, because not many people bring their Vette to the track. Keep in mind the average Vette buyer is 55+ years old!

The one plus the GT500 has is it doesn't share much outside of the Mustang line-up. Where as you have the Camaro mixed and sharing off the G8 and CTS. So the GT500 gets a more open minded R&D because Ford doesn't have any models to work off of so it always has to be fresh yet cost efficient. And the GT500 never has to worry about stepping on anyone's toes in the Ford family. The GT500 is Ford's Vette, the halo car of Ford. I mean the GT500 just got the best engine Ford has arguably ever assembled for a sports car the updated 5.4L S/C from the Ford GT their first and last supercar.

And yeah I thought the 6.4L was going to get 500 HP. It's funny 500 HP doesn't seem like alot anymore whne you see our cars being tuned to have over 700+ HP. It's like wathing FOX Business and seeing the stock market and economy with all the Billions and Trillions being talked about than all of a sudden you hear 850 million and your like wow that's chump change! But 550+ HP stock is great even 500 Hp is amazing. But the truth is the Chally needs to go on a diet and a bigger engine was not needed. I guess they want to own one category from us and it's only going to be in displacement! I used to care about displacement till I realized it's not about the size of the engine that counts only the numbers it can produce!

First of all welcome to our forums! You seem to good to be true to be driving the enemy! LOL Yeah I was a similiar situation to you. I will be waiting for Z28 although after reading your post and agreeing with alot of what you said, who knows if it is the right move? My bro is a Mustang guy and I always liked the Camaro. Although the new Mustang is nice in my opinion, especially the new GT500. I gained alot of respect for Ford in the last year or so I like what they are doing and the "evolution" process as you put it. Even though they really stiffed their 2010 buyers with the 2011 Mustang across the board every company has done that at some point. GM has done it numerous times with the Vette. I think that Ford had to bring out a fresh body so that something new was on the lot once the Camaro hit dealers.

Although it didn't work since Camaro is outselling the Mustang. But that is for two main reasons: 1. It is the newer hot item right now, Camaro has been gone for 7 years and now people are gitty it's back! 2. I think alot of people anticipated a big change for the 2011 Mustang knowing it couldn't compete with the Camaro the way it was. So as soon as the 2011 Stangs hit showrooms I expect the numbers to start being more even with both cars swithcing sales every other month.

I just hope history doesn't repeat itself where the Camaro is just a fad now that dies once people are over it. The Mustang I think will outlast any car unfortunately it's the original pony car/muscle car depending on who you ask. And it has the most support around the world and has been more influential and is the automotive world's largest icon according to multiple reports. I will keep a close eye on this GT500 it seems like it will be tough to beat!

[esperman]

Originally Posted by BaylorAirForce

I HATE the look of all the mustangs.. but that.. that is pretty sick!

agreed. She looked mean.

[ron10]

just finished reading about the new 5.0L,302 in the new april issue of hot rod.very impressive.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Cobra_Commander

Yeah since the Camaro has IRS, which adds weight and cost, they couldn't shave weight with materials if they want to be competitive in price. I work in the auto business so I understand on a corporate level how 1.) keeping costs to a minimum 2.) while making a profit 3.) and keeping consumers somewhat happy is the main goal. Unfortunately out of all of those numbers 1 + 2 always come first when dealing with a corporation. But the truth is it's the only way to keep capitalism alive and without capitalism we wouldn't be the USA!

The handling is probably the easiest thing to fix for the Z28 because GM has so many options, although you wonder if it is that easy. With all the extensive research and development on the V6 and SS I think alot of people expected a much better handler, so who knows if GM can greatly exceed the SS and keep costs reasonable for both sides. We have to remember a Z28 cannot step on the toes of a Vette and the truth is the Vette is due for an extensive redesign including it's suspension and handling. GM is sick of the complaints about the leaf springs and how uncivil they are in real world cituations, because not many people bring their Vette to the track. Keep in mind the average Vette buyer is 55+ years old!

The one plus the GT500 has is it doesn't share much outside of the Mustang line-up. Where as you have the Camaro mixed and sharing off the G8 and CTS. So the GT500 gets a more open minded R&D because Ford doesn't have any models to work off of so it always has to be fresh yet cost efficient. And the GT500 never has to worry about stepping on anyone's toes in the Ford family. The GT500 is Ford's Vette, the halo car of Ford. I mean the GT500 just got the best engine Ford has arguably ever assembled for a sports car the updated 5.4L S/C from the Ford GT their first and last supercar.

And yeah I thought the 6.4L was going to get 500 HP. It's funny 500 HP doesn't seem like alot anymore whne you see our cars being tuned to have over 700+ HP. It's like wathing FOX Business and seeing the stock market and economy with all the Billions and Trillions being talked about than all of a sudden you hear 850 million and your like wow that's chump change! But 550+ HP stock is great even 500 Hp is amazing. But the truth is the Chally needs to go on a diet and a bigger engine was not needed. I guess they want to own one category from us and it's only going to be in displacement! I used to care about displacement till I realized it's not about the size of the engine that counts only the numbers it can produce!

On the CHallenger I think the 6.4 could be a great addition. Right now removing weight is not really an option, it shares it's bones with the larger CHarger and 300 sedans, now if the 11 versions of those are lighter and the Challenger gets those enhancements for it's mid cycle refresh that year, it could happen. I do think the 6.4 will be a good option if it gets at least 500 HP. Since it will also be used in the CHarger, 300, and the HD trucks there shouldn't be much of a price increase which should give it a 7-8k price advantage over a GT500 or Z28. THis could get very interesting folks! What a great time to be a car lover!!!!!!