Consolidated Toyota Recall/Safety thread

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

China has strict laws on local content and local manufacturing. Also, the Joint Ventures GM has (SGM, Wueling (sic?)) can not be foreign owned. In fact GM just sold the 1% controling interest back to SGM, now owning only 49%. Korea is another tough market to export to. No real laws, but apparently you are statistically more likely to get a tax audit if you buy a foreign car.

No one understands the advantage that a strong CAPTIVE/PROTECTED home market gives Japan, Korea and Germany.

To illustrate the results of Japans protectionism: Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have ~80% of Japan's passenger car market and all imports account for something like ~5%

If that happened in America with GM, Ford, and Chrysler I don't think any of them would have had the financial problems they experienced.

[Tomash]

Originally Posted by nickmccally

I didn't say europe, I said china and japan which are both non related to europe. Why are mustangs problematic cars again?

They require repairs.
Even if these are small and non-critical, nowadays car owners are lazy and just want to drive after pouring and changing all the necessary fluids.

No one understands the advantage that a strong CAPTIVE/PROTECTED home market gives Japan, Korea and Germany.

BS detected, at least about the "Germany" part.

They have no protection of their car market. It's just they don't want to buy cars with mediocre steering and braking capabilities (Chrysler Seebring, for ****'s sake).
But germans are perfectly fine with buying cars that are japanese, french, romanian (Dacia), korean (Kia, Hyundai, korean Chevy), provided they have any advantages over the german cars. And, to be honest, it's hard to get advantage over german cars, at least in europe. Japanese cars sell due to their reliability, korean ones due to their great quality/price ratio (at least here in Europe).

At the moment, at least until american Ford, GM and Chrysler work seriously on quality and reliability (at least the parts are cheap, but they have to be imported over the Atlantic), steering (rear axle in Mustang -- oh please) and braking (there are still some american cars sold with brake drums, WTF?), american cars are only for the passionate.

As a funny fact (and to troll you guys a bit with your belief in american GM's awesomeness ) some time ago GM was selling rebranded american cars in europe with a bit of redesigned exterior. Nowadays it's the other way around -- many popular GM models sold in the US (C and D-segment) are rebranded Opels with some visual redesigns.
Aveo and Cruze (already mentioned here) are mostly korean in origin (with platform for Cruze coming from Opel).
I'm not saying it's bad, just don't get overhyped about the state US automotive industry. At the moment it's in a really bad shape, sorry. The sooner and more people realize it, the better it will be for the automakers to push necessary change. One single (even serious, but still) f***up by Toyota doesn't automatically make The Big Three awesome again.

[manimsoblack]

Originally Posted by Tomash

They require repairs.
Even if these are small and non-critical, nowadays car owners are lazy and just want to drive after pouring and changing all the necessary fluids.



BS detected, at least about the "Germany" part.

They have no protection of their car market. It's just they don't want to buy cars with mediocre steering and braking capabilities (Chrysler Seebring, for ****'s sake).
But germans are perfectly fine with buying cars that are japanese, french, romanian (Dacia), korean (Kia, Hyundai, korean Chevy), provided they have any advantages over the german cars. And, to be honest, it's hard to get advantage over german cars, at least in europe. Japanese cars sell due to their reliability, korean ones due to their great quality/price ratio (at least here in Europe).

At the moment, at least until american Ford, GM and Chrysler work seriously on quality and reliability (at least the parts are cheap, but they have to be imported over the Atlantic), steering (rear axle in Mustang -- oh please) and braking (there are still some american cars sold with brake drums, WTF?), american cars are only for the passionate.

As a funny fact (and to troll you guys a bit with your belief in american GM's awesomeness ) some time ago GM was selling rebranded american cars in europe with a bit of redesigned exterior. Nowadays it's the other way around -- many popular GM models sold in the US (C and D-segment) are rebranded Opels with some visual redesigns.
Aveo and Cruze (already mentioned here) are mostly korean in origin (with platform for Cruze coming from Opel).
I'm not saying it's bad, just don't get overhyped about the state US automotive industry. At the moment it's in a really bad shape, sorry. The sooner and more people realize it, the better it will be for the automakers to push necessary change. One single (even serious, but still) f***up by Toyota doesn't automatically make The Big Three awesome again.

The designs are owned by an American company and therefore are part of the American auto industry no? Regardless of which GM employee does the work they are still first and foremost a GM employee and GM is still an American (partially owned by the country, in fact) company.

And at my last count there were 3 Toyota recalls in effect; Breaks, Acceleration (programming), Acceleration (floormats) they chose to make them separate so I'll follow their lead. So that's three big *** ups by Toyota.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Tomash

As a funny fact (and to troll you guys a bit with your belief in american GM's awesomeness ) some time ago GM was selling rebranded american cars in europe with a bit of redesigned exterior. Nowadays it's the other way around -- many popular GM models sold in the US (C and D-segment) are rebranded Opels with some visual redesigns.
Aveo and Cruze (already mentioned here) are mostly korean in origin (with platform for Cruze coming from Opel).

Someone doesn't understand the concept of global cars on global platforms developed through global engineering. Saves money, time, and resources.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Tomash

They require repairs.
Even if these are small and non-critical, nowadays car owners are lazy and just want to drive after pouring and changing all the necessary fluids.



BS detected, at least about the "Germany" part.

They have no protection of their car market. It's just they don't want to buy cars with mediocre steering and braking capabilities (Chrysler Seebring, for ****'s sake).
But germans are perfectly fine with buying cars that are japanese, french, romanian (Dacia), korean (Kia, Hyundai, korean Chevy), provided they have any advantages over the german cars. And, to be honest, it's hard to get advantage over german cars, at least in europe. Japanese cars sell due to their reliability, korean ones due to their great quality/price ratio (at least here in Europe).

At the moment, at least until american Ford, GM and Chrysler work seriously on quality and reliability (at least the parts are cheap, but they have to be imported over the Atlantic), steering (rear axle in Mustang -- oh please) and braking (there are still some american cars sold with brake drums, WTF?), american cars are only for the passionate.

As a funny fact (and to troll you guys a bit with your belief in american GM's awesomeness ) some time ago GM was selling rebranded american cars in europe with a bit of redesigned exterior. Nowadays it's the other way around -- many popular GM models sold in the US (C and D-segment) are rebranded Opels with some visual redesigns.
Aveo and Cruze (already mentioned here) are mostly korean in origin (with platform for Cruze coming from Opel).
I'm not saying it's bad, just don't get overhyped about the state US automotive industry. At the moment it's in a really bad shape, sorry. The sooner and more people realize it, the better it will be for the automakers to push necessary change. One single (even serious, but still) f***up by Toyota doesn't automatically make The Big Three awesome again.

No BS on Germany. You have misinterpretted my point. Germany has strong, very strong cultural bias to buy German. If you read any of my previous posts when we get to discussing this you would remember on my trip there to discover the closing of a Walmart. I was told that the German people don't Wang cheap Chinese made goods like we do. Further, in Germany, shops and department stores close earlier in the day, preventing shopping for price hence helping to support more expensive German products.

You should know better than to call BS on one of my posts LOL. I only bring real data to the table.........

But you are also correct, Germany is not as protectionist as Asia.

Oh and one more interesting story about the Germans. Apparently it is cheaper to buy a plane ticket to the U.S., go to an Audi dealer and buy your car, have the car shipped back to Germany, fly home to meet your car, have your car Federalized to German specifications than it is to buy the Audi in Germany.

Audi apparently threatened U.S. dealers to stop enabling this practice. You see they are such a captive market they can charge ridiculous amounts for their cars in Germany. To support this, if you take the German cars you refer to that are sold here under other GM Brands and compare prices you would be shocked. An Opel Astras that was sold here as a Saturn is the direct comparison.

Take off the 19% VAT and the Astra in Germany is still $19,000 plus...............for manual windows and locks, and no A/C.

As a Saturn, this same Astra had an upgraded engine, Power windows and locks, A/C and many upgrades and stickered for around $16,000.

Captive market!!

[Tomash]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Germany has strong, very strong cultural bias to buy German.

Every country I know of has this, America as well (US citizens are amongst most patriotic people in the world).
The difference is that german automakers started competing with japanese cars early on and were able to be a serious competition to import all this time (and if car from my country is as good as import and with the same price, why fight old habits and support overseas companies?), while The Big Three was ignoring the japanese competition and lost.

Originally Posted by Number 3

You should know better than to call BS on one of my posts LOL. I only bring real data to the table.........

Come on, it's an internet forum, no disrespect intented

In unrelated (O RLY?) news, Honda adds another batch to its year-old recall due to faulty airbags: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_456202.html

So yeah, GM has a really big chance now -- especially with its latest really great cars (Chevy Spark and Cruze, Opel Astra and Insignia) -- to step up and show some quality cars that'll attract people scared of japanese.

(Ford is doing well and nobody cares about Chrysler anyway )

[Number 3]

I wasn't referring to patriotism. But Americans don't buy products based on their patriotism. And the Germans were wayyyyyyyy ahead of the Japanese. The Japanese auto industry didn't really develop until the 50s. After WWII they primarily built 3 wheelers. If you want I can give you the history of who taught them.

And absolutely no disrespect taken. I enjoy this topic very much and trying to add another perspective to it

[HeatherR]

Originally Posted by Number 3

No BS on Germany. You have misinterpretted my point. Germany has strong, very strong cultural bias to buy German. If you read any of my previous posts when we get to discussing this you would remember on my trip there to discover the closing of a Walmart. I was told that the German people don't Wang cheap Chinese made goods like we do. Further, in Germany, shops and department stores close earlier in the day, preventing shopping for price hence helping to support more expensive German products.

You should know better than to call BS on one of my posts LOL. I only bring real data to the table.........

But you are also correct, Germany is not as protectionist as Asia.

Oh and one more interesting story about the Germans. Apparently it is cheaper to buy a plane ticket to the U.S., go to an Audi dealer and buy your car, have the car shipped back to Germany, fly home to meet your car, have your car Federalized to German specifications than it is to buy the Audi in Germany.

Audi apparently threatened U.S. dealers to stop enabling this practice. You see they are such a captive market they can charge ridiculous amounts for their cars in Germany. To support this, if you take the German cars you refer to that are sold here under other GM Brands and compare prices you would be shocked. An Opel Astras that was sold here as a Saturn is the direct comparison.

Take off the 19% VAT and the Astra in Germany is still $19,000 plus...............for manual windows and locks, and no A/C.

As a Saturn, this same Astra had an upgraded engine, Power windows and locks, A/C and many upgrades and stickered for around $16,000.

Captive market!!

He's not BSing you on the Wal-Mart...If it is the same one I was there the day before it closed! Shocked that a Wal-Mart was going out of business, but it did.

Oh and they do have a protected market...not for the same reasons and to the extent of others but they do...

[Shifty 6]

Having owned domestic cars and truck, as well as foreign car, van & SUV, I can tell you from experience, not perception, my VW has been the best car I have owned. Vehicles I have experience with:
1998 Z71 K1500 - The truck was very good for what it was. I loved it. Good quality. Fit and finish was better than average, not far superior.
1999 Z28 - Favorite car - fit and finish and quality were sub - sub standard. With out the horsepower - this car was rubbish! I still loved it and it is still my top 2. (until I can get a 5th gen Camaro)
2001 Passat - Bullet proof. This car has been driven like a race car, and has taken everything I have thrown at it. Its only issue has been headlights; the bulbs burn out at an astounding rate. You can talk about VW's reputation, I will talk about my VW experience. Fit and finish on this car is the best of anything I have owned. Everything feels as it should in a car. I know there are at least a few on here that loathe VW, but again, MY experience has been superior. Brakes lasted 200K clutch still looks new (original).
2003 Xterra - loved the 4x4. this car was worse than the Z28. Air would leak in through the door panel, it was loud inside, the fit and finish was a joke. None of the interior panels fit right, the overall quality of the car was terrible. However, it was one of 2 SUV's you could get in a manual.
2006 Honda Odyssey - Van's suck! they are very practical, but they suck. This is the stage we are in now. The wife and I desperately wanted an Acadia, however the "trunk" space was less than we wanted/needed. The fit and finish is not up to the perception. It is good but not superior. Domestics and certainly the Acadia is as good or better. Honda finally figured out what a telescoping steering wheel was for the 2007 year. The materials are of good quality, but the interior panels don't fit as well as they could. It sounds like the body panels are made of the thinnest steel possible and still hold a shape. You hear a lot of wind noise, door handles are awkward and don't work smoothly. This mechanical superiority comes from incessant maintenance. You have change timing BELTS, and seeming every fluid every 30,000 miles.
My dad's corvettes 2001 & 2007 and Lucerne - I have not lived with these cars day to day, however, his '01 vette was good but not great. The fit and finish of the interior was way below average, it is much improved on the '07 however it is still below average for a car costing $50,000. again with out the horsepower this car would be average at best. The rest of the car is fairly good. The exterior fit and finish / materials is very good. The 07 drives really well for its performance. I have not sampled higher end performance cars on drive-ability, but perceive the Corvette to be very good. The Lucerne on the other hand has been very good. Fit and finish in this car appears very good, above average. I would say it has been the best car he has owned.

All that to say: Yes there is an unfair perception that the Japanese cars are FAR superior to the domestics, however I think it stems from the 80's and 90's when the domestics were inferior on quality, not necessarily reliability. I guess my struggle is with the people who say domestics are THE best and foreign makes are the worst, no questions and no exceptions. I also struggle with the people who say the opposite, foreign makes are far superior, and no domestic car can compare. There are foreign cars I would buy and there are domestics I would buy, but it is based on the vehicle not the make.

[Shifty 6]

Originally Posted by Tomash

Every country I know of has this, America as well (US citizens are amongst most patriotic people in the world).
The difference is that german automakers started competing with japanese cars early on and were able to be a serious competition to import all this time (and if car from my country is as good as import and with the same price, why fight old habits and support overseas companies?), while The Big Three was ignoring the japanese competition and lost.

If by patriotic you mean - we want to buy it for less. Then yes we are very patriotic. That is why Wal-Mart is so hugely successful - we don't want American, we want cheaper. If it meant getting a toaster for 50 cents less we would slit every U.S. workers' throat and watch them bleed. Then spit on the corpse.

[FenwickHockey65]

8,000 Tacomas recalled.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

8,000 Tacomas recalled.

driveshaft issue, on 4WD models.

When it rains, it pours.

[derklug]

Now I see Edmunds reporting that Ford will be the #2 Automaker in the US, beating out Toyota by a smidge. Too bad Chrysler can't take third.

[UCF w00t]

Wow... The hits keep rolling.

(CNN) -- Toyota announced a voluntary safety recall of about 8,000 four-wheel-drive Tacoma trucks in North America, citing potential production defects in the front drive shaft of certain 2010 models.

The automaker said Friday that the front shaft in a small production run of pickups may include a component that developed cracks during the manufacturing process.

As the vehicles are used, the cracks could lead to "the separation of the drive shaft at the joint portion."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/13/tacoma.recall/