Obama considering tax on imported fuels.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D

We really need to look at something like Valcent's way of making fuel.

http://blog.valcent.net/?tag=algae-for-biofuel

The thing that we should do is build these algea growing centers near coal power plants since the stuff eats up the gases given off by these power plants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel Bit more of an in depth explanation here. If they can make it cost effective I'm all for it

[MrIcky]

I'm in general agreement that the internal combustion engine is going to be around for quite a while. There may be some substitute fuels as was mentioned. I don't know what those alternatives would be because they make some new announcement on potential alt-fuels every other month. You should still be able to drive your Camaro though.

I guess I get more concerned that there will be attempts to 'incentivise' everyone into a prius.

[PonyMan]

Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS

wow, it seems alot of people in this thread believe everything they read in the news and from "studies"

i'll just make one comment on the "Reserve Life" stuff. i work as a Petroleum Engineer and i am assigned to fields in the Permian Basin (West Texas, for those who do not know). I GUARANTEE you that the life of some of the fields i work are much much much more than 8 years! the reserve life of one field i work for example has a life of over 50 years as long as the price per barrel is at or above $40. the field makes approx. 500 bbls per day, which doesn't sound like much compared to other places in the world. but as long as the field makes a profit it will continue to make oil. this is why i believe we will continue to be driving gas powered vehicles in at least my lifetime (i am 22 years old)

No, the 8 year "Reserve Life" refers to if the US had to depend on only its own oil reserves. The Mabee, Means, McElroy, Sacroc, or even the Spraberry fields in West Texas are producing fields on the decline and have been for years. 500 bbls per day is a drop in the tanker compared to the US daily needs. There are no undiscovered fields in West Texas. Water floods, and CO2 injection can only do so much!

[2ndgenz28]

them facts are wrong, I know oil men and there is over 100years worth under the great lakes alone, but they won't drill for it.

Here in norther Ohio, you can drill for oil in your backyard, anywhere you want and will fine it. [great black swamp]

Head into Omish country in NE ohio and everyone has a oil well in pump in their back yard. [Like driving through TX.]
But most are only active when prices are right as its like money in the bank.


We should want to use up the most of the worlds oil supply kinda.
To remove all the power from the middle east.
No oil, no power. Easier then using guns to fight em, use V8s.

[RedJewel2SS]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

Good points, but keep in mind that news and 'studies' are really all most people have to go off of. So it's great to hear from someone that actually KNOWS about this stuff like yourself As for ethanol, scientists have figured out how to make the stuff from switch grass now, and the method for doing so is supposed to be MUCH more efficient than making it from corn or soybeans (see wiki link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchgrass#Bioenergy

And I believe that is what Dragoneye is referring to in his post below:


Also, I completely agree that adding new taxes at this point in time (especially something as huge as a gas tax) would severely hamper the recovery of the economy.

i had a professor back in college that did research on switchgrass, the only problem is corn and soy based ethanol is subsidized by the gov't so more bio fuel is being made from it than switchgrass. i was told that switchgrass can grow 6 feet in a couple of months and can grow in any exhausted soil!

only problem is it cost more to refine bio fuels than it does oil, and you can't make standard octane gasoline out of the stuff economically!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS

i had a professor back in college that did research on switchgrass, the only problem is corn and soy based ethanol is subsidized by the gov't so more bio fuel is being made from it than switchgrass. i was told that switchgrass can grow 6 feet in a couple of months and can grow in any exhausted soil!

only problem is it cost more to refine bio fuels than it does oil, and you can't make standard octane gasoline out of the stuff economically!

You're professor is right.

What he didn't know at the time, because it didn't exist, is that there is a company, Coskata, with a refining procedure that promises a gallon of ethanol for about a buck. The great thing about the procedure is this: they can make it out of almost anything. Almost anything carbon-based can be fed into the plant, and out will come ethanol that they can mix with gasoline to make E85.

[RedJewel2SS]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

You're professor is right.

What he didn't know at the time, because it didn't exist, is that there is a company, Coskata, with a refining procedure that promises a gallon of ethanol for about a buck. The great thing about the procedure is this: they can make it out of almost anything. Almost anything carbon-based can be fed into the plant, and out will come ethanol that they can mix with gasoline to make E85.

kind of like the little food processor on the back of the DeLorean in Back to the Future 2 & 3!!!

[2000v6]

So... hm... I really don't get this. Most of the armed forces happen to be in iraq. Iraq happens to have a reserve life of 150 years. I'm not saying that we should force them to accept the military.But, what about somehow getting iraq to become a us territory in the middle east? Kind of like the virgin islands. Not by force, but by diplomatic and political resolutions.

Also... like others have mentioned, what about ethanol, hydrogen and electricity. I definitely wouldn't mind a hydrogen run camaro.

[RedJewel2SS]

Originally Posted by 2000v6

So... hm... I really don't get this. Most of the armed forces happen to be in iraq. Iraq happens to have a reserve life of 150 years. I'm not saying that we should force them to accept the military.But, what about somehow getting iraq to become a us territory in the middle east? Kind of like the virgin islands. Not by force, but by diplomatic and political resolutions.

Also... like others have mentioned, what about ethanol, hydrogen and electricity. I definitely wouldn't mind a hydrogen run camaro.

1. Iraqi people will not let that happen, they will continue to bomb us because its their way of thinking.

2. hydrogen is no where near to the point to be profitable by any car company... they are still too expensive to build. i think honda spent 2 or 3 million building their hydrogen car.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS

1. Iraqi people will not let that happen, they will continue to bomb us because its their way of thinking.

2. hydrogen is no where near to the point to be profitable by any car company... they are still too expensive to build. i think honda spent 2 or 3 million building their hydrogen car.

And GM spent similar amounts building their 300 Hydrogen Equinoxes that people are driving right now as part of an R&D program.

Soon, though. The big issue is not the cars, it's the infrastructure. How many hydrogen fueling stations are by your house? Ya know?

[RedJewel2SS]

zero

[lnsjr1]

Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS

i had a professor back in college that did research on switchgrass, the only problem is corn and soy based ethanol is subsidized by the gov't so more bio fuel is being made from it than switchgrass. i was told that switchgrass can grow 6 feet in a couple of months and can grow in any exhausted soil!

only problem is it cost more to refine bio fuels than it does oil, and you can't make standard octane gasoline out of the stuff economically!

The only issue with using (alcohol) fuels, is you need more fuel volume. Thats why the EPA has not upped the Methanol % yet they know its going to damage alot of older cars/trucks/small gas engines etc...remember running on alcohol requires more fuel volume...and you think gas is expensive wait till you see the costs to produce "green" fuels....Its going to take alot of whatever they come up to fuel this country its not going to cheap either.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by lnsjr1

and you think gas is expensive wait till you see the costs to produce "green" fuels....Its going to take alot of whatever they come up to fuel this country its not going to cheap either.

Not necessarily. There are options out there that are similar to the price of gasoline. My personal favorite is algae-based gasoline/ethanol/diesel/etc.
Current estimates have one gallon of algae-gasoline at about $4.00 a gallon. But this fuel is NOT being mass produced, so that number would go down.

In addition, as you burn this fuel, it releases less carbon dioxide than petroleum-based gas, and growing the algae "consumes" Co2 from the air...making it a win=win. This could be settled for, or we could even join a coal-power plant to an algae-'farm' and scrub the exhaust.

It is said that in the physical area of 1/10th of the state of New Mexico, enough of an algae 'farm' could be built that would produce enough oil to replace the entire US usage based on 2007 estimates. OIL...not just gasoline, so that means plastics, too.

Sooo...apply that on a local basis...and every major metropolitan area could have its own personal algae plant/refinery. That would drastically reduce the costs of transportation and create localized jobs.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by 2000v6

So... hm... I really don't get this. Most of the armed forces happen to be in iraq. Iraq happens to have a reserve life of 150 years. I'm not saying that we should force them to accept the military.But, what about somehow getting iraq to become a us territory in the middle east? Kind of like the virgin islands. Not by force, but by diplomatic and political resolutions.

Also... like others have mentioned, what about ethanol, hydrogen and electricity. I definitely wouldn't mind a hydrogen run camaro.

I think that 150 year reserve is not a world reserve but a reserve of their own needs? I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Not necessarily. There are options out there that are similar to the price of gasoline. My personal favorite is algae-based gasoline/ethanol/diesel/etc.
Current estimates have one gallon of algae-gasoline at about $4.00 a gallon. But this fuel is NOT being mass produced, so that number would go down.

In addition, as you burn this fuel, it releases less carbon dioxide than petroleum-based gas, and growing the algae "consumes" Co2 from the air...making it a win=win. This could be settled for, or we could even join a coal-power plant to an algae-'farm' and scrub the exhaust.

It is said that in the physical area of 1/10th of the state of New Mexico, enough of an algae 'farm' could be built that would produce enough oil to replace the entire US usage based on 2007 estimates. OIL...not just gasoline, so that means plastics, too.

Sooo...apply that on a local basis...and every major metropolitan area could have its own personal algae plant/refinery. That would drastically reduce the costs of transportation and create localized jobs.

I think this is great, but the even greater thing is that these discoveries and innovations are rolling pretty damned fast now. In the last 10 years we've gone from corn ethanol to using things like switch grass and algae and now we're talking oil instead of alchohol, and in 10 more years who knows what we'll be seeing.

Batteries are improving as well though so I can see a time when EVs become real competition. Of course, then you have to run the powerplants- but that's a discussion for a different day.