Electric Vehicles

[swisscheese]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Ford’s head of design stated that they focused on EV because it is the best product for their customers based on cost to produce, drivability, and cost to operate.

It's always nice when they think they know what the customer wants...

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by swisscheese

It's always nice when they think they know what the customer wants...

"Based on cost to produce" is the main thing they care about. Eventually they know the customer won't have a choice in the years to come. All this back peddling you see (for example, GM doing an apparent 180 on hybrids) is maybe the response to customer pushback, but don't kid yourself, we will one day see a full BEV only lineup. They don't want to produce both forever.

On this small to midsize BEV truck option though, GM again missed the boat there I think similar to the Maverick discussion. It would make a ton of sense for fleets and city runabouts. I have seen exactly qty 1 Silverado WT 70k MSRP with a company branded wrap. I was hoping they'd give us a downsized Hummer H3 size BEV.


EDIT: I was curious and looked at local Silverado EV WTs in my area, they are being discounted in some cases 20k to the 50s total!

[docwra]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

California cannot handle the current electrical load let alone more. And they are currenlty doing nothing to remedy the problem, just making it worse.

But we are going green. Wooohooo.

Apologies for the cracked record bit but we had all this shit in the UK a few years ago too - not enough charging stations, not enough capacity, not enough power generation in the first place ........ but no-one I know has had any problem finding or using chargers for the last couple of years.

UK BEV car sales were up 35% in H1 2025 and make up 22% of all sales, interestingly van sales were up by 50% and constitute 10% of all new vans the biggest difference is the negative press seems to have vanished, who'd have thought that was going to happen?

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by docwra

Apologies for the cracked record bit but we had all this shit in the UK a few years ago too - not enough charging stations, not enough capacity, not enough power generation in the first place ........ but no-one I know has had any problem finding or using chargers for the last couple of years.

UK BEV car sales were up 35% in H1 2025 and make up 22% of all sales, interestingly van sales were up by 50% and constitute 10% of all new vans the biggest difference is the negative press seems to have vanished, who'd have thought that was going to happen?

California literally sent letters to EV owners asking them the charge at certain times due to system load. So it is real

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

California cannot handle the current electrical load let alone more. And they are currenlty doing nothing to remedy the problem, just making it worse.

But we are going green. Wooohooo.

My neighborhood for example, south east USA. If (i need to find the report) but if most of the houses get an EV they will need to run new main lines. Not sure i totally understand the logic but that is what it said

EDIT... I guess they do the math on each plot having 200amp service with a bit of overhead. And they figure that will not be enough wire, even though a house with 200amp service is usually good enough for an EV charger.

Originally Posted by docwra

Apologies for the cracked record bit but we had all this shit in the UK a few years ago too - not enough charging stations, not enough capacity, not enough power generation in the first place ........ but no-one I know has had any problem finding or using chargers for the last couple of years.

UK BEV car sales were up 35% in H1 2025 and make up 22% of all sales, interestingly van sales were up by 50% and constitute 10% of all new vans the biggest difference is the negative press seems to have vanished, who'd have thought that was going to happen?

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

California literally sent letters to EV owners asking them the charge at certain times due to system load. So it is real

From what I've seen it takes more to mine cryptocurrency than it does to charge the population of EVs in any given area. For one thing, the crypto requires 24/7 electricity support. EVs only draw energy part of the time that they are plugged in. Our Tesla costs $21 - 40 per month in electricity. That's freezer territory.

EVs also tend to have a balancing effect on the grid. Most charge during low use off-peak times, leveling out the peaks and valleys of the charging schedule. When California asked people NOT to charge their EVs at certain times, the impetus was on PEAK charging times, when businesses are operating full tilt and air conditioning use is at a max. Most people charge their EVs at home during the night when energy draw is at its lowest. Part of the directive was aimed at Uber / Lyft drivers who do tend to charge often during peak times.

[FarmerFran]

Ok that said, California has over 30 million registered vehicles. Over 13 million autos and only 1.5ish million are EV and they are feeling it. My issue is they are doing nothing anywhere in the USA to remedy it.

In the USA EVs represent less than 2% of vehicles. In my area the south east they have energy disruptions now.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Ok that said, California has over 30 million registered vehicles. Over 13 million autos and only 1.5ish million are EV and they are feeling it. My issue is they are doing nothing anywhere in the USA to remedy it.

In the USA EVs represent less than 2% of vehicles. In my area the south east they have energy disruptions now.

They would be feeling it WITHOUT the EVs. EVs are not the REASON they are feeling it. And EVs, based on the most common use schedules, are not adding to peak demand. If every EV plugged in and tried to charge in the middle of the work day, that would be disastrous. Fact of the matter is, the odds of that happening are ridiculously close to zero. So we're panicking over something that won't happen.

[Capricio]

It's not just EVs being forced upon us driving electrical demand, it's also the proliferation of a datacenters and the drive towards more expensive and less reliable "green" energy sources.

And yes James, acknowledge that you enjoy cheap electric rates today, but again, if we ALL had EVs, the rates WILL go up and states WILL find a means to garner tax revenue for highway maintenance when/if gas taxes dry up. Enjoy your loophole while it lasts.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

It's not just EVs being forced upon us driving electrical demand, it's also the proliferation of a datacenters and the drive towards more expensive and less reliable "green" energy sources.

And yes James, acknowledge that you enjoy cheap electric rates today, but again, if we ALL had EVs, the rates WILL go up and states WILL find a means to garner tax revenue for highway maintenance when/if gas taxes dry up. Enjoy your loophole while it lasts.

Crypto mining will have a much deeper impact on electricity prices than EV ever could. Crypto requires 24/7 draw of electricity and is an energy hog. Don't take my word for it. The data is out there.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Crypto mining will have a much deeper impact on electricity prices than EV ever could. Crypto requires 24/7 draw of electricity and is an energy hog. Don't take my word for it. The data is out there.

I'm sure they'll be driven out, just as surely as people are fleeing CA (a net importer of about 30% of its electricity). EV chargers for US citizens will have to remain in the US, obviously.

Electricity: This is the most significant operational cost for crypto miners.

Overseas: Some countries offer significantly lower electricity rates than the average in the United States. For example, Paraguay has electricity as low as $2.8 to $4.6 per megawatt hour, and Iran and Syria have electricity costs to mine 1 Bitcoin as low as $532 and $1330, respectively.

Domestic (US): Electricity costs in the US vary significantly, with residential rates averaging 22.25 cents per kWh, while industrial rates average 6.87 cents per kWh. The average household electricity cost to mine 1 Bitcoin in the US is estimated to be $46,291.24.

[detamble13]

Time will tell if this was in fact a "Model T" moment but the focus on keeping personal transportation available to the masses is a good thing. As most know infrastructure needs to improve as well as charging times. Currently EVs are best suited for at home charging. Entry level vehicles that are more attainable to renters might not be as convenient to them if there isn't a charging station nearby or it takes 20 minutes to get a decent charge.

From a manufacturing standpoint I can see how they make a comparison to the Model T. One continuous line becomes three separate units that meet at the end. Apparently they'll implement their own gigacasting, reduce fasteners and weld points and even make assembly more ergonomically friendly. I'd be interested to hear what the general feeling at the Louisville plant is right now. Ford is investing in the future of that plant but less parts and assembly steps means less people. Plus EV sales have slowed.

[Martinjlm]

There are a lot of pluses and minuses to what I saw yesterday.

On the PLUS side:

• Streamlined assembly process with safety-focused operations
• Simplicity of design based on the skateboard nature of the Ford EV Universal Platform
• Lower parts cost by eliminating small parts and multiple welds by using the larger near form castings.
• Lower battery cost by using LFP.
• More jobs by having the LFP batteries produced in thte US.

On the MINUS side:

• Not sure the pickup is the best starting point. Ranger and Maverick are doing well in the market. This truck will divert sales from one or both of them.
• Doesn't address the gaping hole in Ford's current vehicle portfolio. With Edge gone and Escape ending by the end of 2025, Ford has nothing between Bronco Sport and Explorer. This happens to be the sweet spot of the CUV market.
• Not sure it was made clear to the employees present that executing this will likely mean that most if not all of the plant will be down for 12-18 months to update the facility to the new arrangement.

[Capricio]

https://www.autoblog.com/news/porsch...-match-reality

For buyers, especially car enthusiasts, the push toward electrification has often felt a little forced.

...just a little, mind you.

Porsche’s decision to scale back proves that even a brand with strong EV sales can’t make battery production work at today’s volumes. Demand is simply not there.

Examples of Porsche EV depreciation:

• Reports indicate that some Porsche Taycans have lost over 50% of their value within a few years.
• A 2022 Taycan saw a steep drop in value, with one owner losing $56,000 in two years

Oh well, just charge more for their ICE cars to make up for EV losses, gm has shown the path to EV dominance.

[FarmerFran]

RAM canceled their all electric truck, sighting lack of sales in that market. They will continue with the Hybrid version