Electric Vehicles

[snizzle]

What a masterpiece of a video there. Thanks for sharing. And I think I agree with the outcome in this sense: the right move (if you're fortunate enough) is to buy the vehicle(s) purpose built for your mission.

[kevint]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I came THAT close to buying a ‘69 Camaro on BaT. Somehow I managed just enough self control to not pull the trigger.

Anyway, if you think Randy Pobst or Jason Cammisa have any credibility, this video is worth the watch…

https://youtu.be/vCPlZl6xJq4?si=j79Ulqwiccqhl6Df

I'm not quite at that point--carbureted road cars predate me by a little bit--but having recently taken delivery of a 2025 Traverse, I think my personal limit for vehicle technology is my '13 SS. Sure, there are 12-years-worth of improvements in between the two, but the Traverse's screen is too big for me, there are too many warnings flashing, and the seat vibrates on the same side the car detects something in its blind spot. The latter once saved an old man who decided crossing behind a moving vehicle was a good idea, and for that, I'm thankful (not sure he even noticed), but I sometimes have a hard time driving when I can't see through the !!!!! flashing when I approach a stopped vehicle slightly too quickly.

[Martinjlm]

Another video worth watching. Reviewer is an “every person” sort of persona, not an EV fangirl or EV hater. If I’m correct, her channel is more about investing in real estate. Five years ago she was choosing between buying a 2019 Tesla or a 2017 BMW. She bought the Tesla and is now going back to compare the overall cost of ownership for the Tesla over the five years compared to what it would likely have been if she had bought the BMW. Worth the watch. TCO = purchase price + financing cost + insurance +refueling costs + cost of tire replacement + cost of scheduled maintenance + cost of unexpected repairs.

https://youtu.be/Gree9OG7wi8?si=Sl6hcoqbuSTm2UzO

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I came THAT close to buying a ‘69 Camaro on BaT. Somehow I managed just enough self control to not pull the trigger.

Anyway, if you think Randy Pobst or Jason Cammisa have any credibility, this video is worth the watch…

https://youtu.be/vCPlZl6xJq4?si=j79Ulqwiccqhl6Df

I’ve always thought about taking a ‘70 Camaro 6 cylinder and turning it into an SS396 split bumper tribute. You can find Chevy 402s from any early 70s Chevy truck in almost any junkyard, which is pretty much a 396 anyway just marketed different, and blueprint and build it to a “396” for a third of the price of a numbers correct 396.

But I wouldn’t want to drive that daily or in winter. So maybe I’ll just go the 350 route. Maybe a 5 speed for lower highway RPMs, Make it nice for daily driving: add power windows/locks, cruise, tilt. A/C, rear defrost, power steering. Nothing over the top, just livable and drivable every day.

No computers. No emissions (we don’t have emission reg inspections in my county in Ohio anyway so you’re free to cut off your cats on anything to begin with ), no satellite communications…..

Utopia.

[ariZona28]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Utopia.

Other than 6 inches of snow and freezing rain.
LOL! But seriously, good luck finding any affordable early 2nd Gen that isn't a basket case. The secret is out on those, at least in my area. I'd really like an early, high compression LT1 powered car. Maybe someday. You might be able to score a later '78 to '81 but prices are starting to inch up on those also.

[Martinjlm]

Something wicked this way comes….

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ff620-54502997

[olrocker]

Meh. Tesla has already proved EV and off-roading aren’t compatible.

Loved watching the gas F-150 pulling the stuck Cybertruck out of the snow. You could see that F series just yawning while it was doing it.

[Capricio]

I think half or more of these patents are just to buy off some entrapeneur/inventor to keep them out of a market space, with no intent of ever building or capitalizing on them.


https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...-device-patent


Still waiting for news on my tow assist device. Also looking forward to when/if patents on the "multipro" type tailgates expire so we can retrofit knock offs on to older models, since GM seems to have no interest in that aftermarket space.

[90503]

Looks like EV sales had a good 4th quarter...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-ev-tax-credit

A huge asterisk, though...

"On average, EV buyers got a $5,600 rebate per car with the current tax credit, JD Power figures show. Without that kind of incentive, demand could plunge as much as 27%, according to economists. Ford extended a promotion through the first quarter of free home chargers and installation to buyers of its EVs, which it credited for the late-year surge in battery powered models. "

[90503]

I thought the article had a lot of good information...

US Car Sales Get Year-End Boost From Trump’s Threat to End EV Tax Credits
Story by Gabrielle Coppola, David Welch and Keith Naughton • 18h • 4 min read

(Bloomberg) -- The threat by President-elect Donald Trump to end tax credits for electric vehicles helped lift sales in the fourth quarter, giving US automakers a much-needed boost after a disappointing year.

At General Motors Co., EV sales more than doubled to almost 44,000 in the quarter. Ford Motor Co. saw a 16% jump in the category to about 30,000 vehicles. Overall EV sales gained 12%, pushing the full-year total to a record 1.3 million, according to forecasts from researcher Cox Automotive.

The strength in EVs helped push total car sales up from the year prior. The annualized rate for 2024 rose to 15.9 million cars, based on the average forecast of four researchers, up from 15.5 million a year ago.

Stocks of automakers were mixed. EV maker Rivian Automotive Inc., which reported production and deliveries that topped estimates, advanced 24% at the close in New York. Ford rose 2.4%, and General Motors gained less than 1%. Stellantis NV’s US shares fell 2% after fourth-quarter sales declined.

This EV surge isn’t expected to last into 2025. The results of the US presidential election encouraged buyers holding out for deals to make purchases before potential policy changes championed by Trump make electric options more expensive.

Only a quarter of new-car shoppers are considering an EV for their next purchase, down two percentage points from a year ago, according to JD Power.

“Threats and worries” contributed to a “sense of urgency to buying,” Jonathan Smoke, Cox’s chief economist, said on a December call with reporters. “That’s true in overall purchase activity, and it’s also very much true to the EV story.”

Trump made repealing federal policies meant to boost US EV sales a key part of his campaign, railing against what he called President Joe Biden’s “insane electric vehicle mandate.” Advisers to his transition team have recommended cutting the $7,500 tax credit on plug-in vehicles, which would make the already expensive vehicles even further out of reach for US consumers. The president-elect has also threatened tariffs on Canada and Mexico — both tightly integrated into the US auto supply chain — which could also drive up the price of cars.

Sales of Ford’s electric Mustang Mach-E jumped 36% in the final three months of the year, helping to offset a 10% decline in deliveries of the F-150 Lightning plug-in pickup truck. Ford halted production of the Lighting at the end of last year to reduce inventory and losses. Total F-Series pickup truck sales, including gas-fueled models, rose 21% in the quarter.

Tesla Inc. is still the sales leader in EVs by far, but experienced its first annual sales drop in more than a decade last year despite reporting record fourth-quarter deliveries. Meanwhile, electric compact and mid-size SUVs from GM, Honda, Hyundai and Kia attracted more shoppers in December, according to JD Power.

On average, EV buyers got a $5,600 rebate per car with the current tax credit, JD Power figures show. Without that kind of incentive, demand could plunge as much as 27%, according to economists. Ford extended a promotion through the first quarter of free home chargers and installation to buyers of its EVs, which it credited for the late-year surge in battery powered models.

While some carmakers, like GM and Hyundai, have pledged to push ahead with EV offerings regardless of policy changes, others have delayed EV plans to prioritize hybrids, which saw outsized growth in 2024. Stellantis said last month it would delay launching its all-electric Ram a year in favor of an extended-range version. Hyundai said it would double its hybrid lineup and Ford has pledged to offer hybrid versions of all its models by 2030 after slashing prices on its EVs and postponing new electric models.

Automakers that take that “basket approach” will come out on top in 2025, GlobalData’s Schuster said. “If you have a full lineup of options, that’s who wins.”

As for the overall new car market, lower interest rates, rising manufacturer incentives and fading anxiety around the election drew more buyers, prompting analysts to raise full-year sales forecasts. Earlier in the year, inflation and a cyberattack on car dealerships had dimmed the sales outlook for 2024.

General Motors was the biggest automaker in the US by sales last year, delivering 2.7 million cars, followed by Toyota Motor Corp., Ford, Honda Motor Co., Stellantis and Hyundai Motor Co., according to company statements.

In the fourth quarter, General Motors posted growth of 21%, trailed by Hyundai (10%), Honda (9%) and Ford (8.8%). Meanwhile, Toyota said US sales fell 2.7% during the period. At Stellantis, which has been plagued by product launch delays and bloated inventories that led to the ouster of its CEO last year, vehicle sales fell 7% in the final three months of 2024.

Affordability is keeping car sales of all kinds below pre-pandemic levels, according to Jeff Schuster, GlobalData’s vice president of automotive research. The average retail transaction price for new vehicles is trending toward $46,258, according to JD Power. For EVs, high costs are the biggest stumbling block for potential buyers, followed by insufficient charging infrastructure.

General Motors said it was able to boost sales without resorting to heavy discounts. The average price discount was 4.2%, down almost a point from the first quarter. GM said its average transaction price was over $51,000, which was $1,000 more than it was in the first quarter.

©2025 Bloomberg L.P.

[Capricio]

I was reading something similar in my newfeed this morning.

https://wolfstreet.com/2025/01/03/ug...te-teslas-dip/

Main points:

• Sales surge hysteria for EVs at the end of 24 should be tempered by the "last gasp" of federal subsidies being available. We'll see what happens after that.
  
• Stellantis is pretty much F'd for the near future. Hyundai/Kia are raking it in.
  
• Everything is too expensive, price increases have exceeded income increases. Rates are high. Credit is tightening. We'll see how well GM continues living on low volume/high margin.

FWIW, for the first time in several years, I received an inscentive cash offer for my GM Sachs credit card that I stopped using. Only $750, not like the $1500 I was offered back in 2017, but I think the dam is cracking.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Another video worth watching. Reviewer is an “every person” sort of persona, not an EV fangirl or EV hater. If I’m correct, her channel is more about investing in real estate. Five years ago she was choosing between buying a 2019 Tesla or a 2017 BMW. She bought the Tesla and is now going back to compare the overall cost of ownership for the Tesla over the five years compared to what it would likely have been if she had bought the BMW. Worth the watch. TCO = purchase price + financing cost + insurance +refueling costs + cost of tire replacement + cost of scheduled maintenance + cost of unexpected repairs.

https://youtu.be/Gree9OG7wi8?si=Sl6hcoqbuSTm2UzO

The better comparisons are mainstream compacts, and I'll guess might only hold up with their subventing insurance. I'm 9 years into my current salt sacrifice, and my 180k mile total spend is less than her purchase.

Expect the adoption trajectory to lower here, Germany has already seen it: https://www.carscoops.com/2025/01/ev...were-scrapped/.

Discouraging is ending the ball & chain on combustion products isn't yet on the table: https://www.carscoops.com/2025/01/to...ons-standards/
The link story doesn't even cover punitive non-CO2 limits. LS engines got good enough to drop EGR and air pumps. "It's over Johnny! (Rambo)" except it's not.

That said, people like the blonde in the video would buy a niche EV. She didn't mention performance. It might be worth putting the next gen Bolt bones in a sleeker car.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by genxer

Discouraging is ending the ball & chain on combustion products isn't yet on the table: https://www.carscoops.com/2025/01/to...ons-standards/
The link story doesn't even cover punitive non-CO2 limits.

It's ridiculous that ICE OEMs have to jack up MSRPs and pay a tithe/tribute to their competitor in order to give consumers what they actually want. If they can't force EVs on us with a carrot on the front end with subsidies on EVs, they'll get us with a whip on the back end with carbon credits built into the MSRPs of cars we're not supposed to buy.

[olrocker]

This might be the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen that doesn’t keep you warm in bed at night: