Electric Vehicles

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I am heavily considering a Ramcharger,

For anyone who has not been in a RAM or hates on them, the RAMBOX, Tailgate, the 4-corner air suspension, the list goes on and on...

now pair that up with 700 miles of range and no need to charge - but charge if you want for ~150 (more than that but do not remember the number) you can.

This is absolutely how they should have started out with EV.

Well, actually they did…

The black car is a 2017 Chevrolet Volt. Replaced our 2012 Chevrolet Volt. The Tesla is a competitor evaluation vehicle I had for a couple days back in 2017.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well, actually they did…

The black car is a 2017 Chevrolet Volt. Replaced our 2012 Chevrolet Volt. The Tesla is a competitor evaluation vehicle I had for a couple days back in 2017.

Was that car gas motor --> generator --> battery --> wheels?

If so, I did not know that.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Was that car gas motor --> generator --> battery --> wheels?

If so, I did not know that.

Well….yes and no. Ever notice how many times I say that?

Up until the 11th hour of development there was no physical connection between the engine and the wheels. At the very end, Mountain Mode was added. During a validation trip at Pike’s Peak or another hill climb location, it was discovered that at a low state of charge, the battery couldn’t deliver enough energy to the electric motors to complete the climb, so Mountain Mode was added. It had to be selected by the driver, but it would allow the engine to connect to the wheels to both conserve battery state of charge and supplemental tractive effort. Most owners didn’t know it was there or what it was for. Over the lives of our two Volts we never used it. That’s the “no” part.

The “yes” part is that the normal operation of the Volt is the battery sends electricity to the electric motors and the electric motors power the wheels. The engine operates as a generator to put energy back in the battery. The difference between how the Volt was set up and how the Ramcharger will be set up is that the Volt was calibrated to maximize the amount of time the engine is off. The Ramcharger is calibrated to maintain the battery at an optimal state of charge, so it would turn on at times the Volt engine would not.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well….yes and no. Ever notice how many times I say that?

Up until the 11th hour of development there was no physical connection between the engine and the wheels. At the very end, Mountain Mode was added. During a validation trip at Pike’s Peak or another hill climb location, it was discovered that at a low state of charge, the battery couldn’t deliver enough energy to the electric motors to complete the climb, so Mountain Mode was added. It had to be selected by the driver, but it would allow the engine to connect to the wheels to both conserve battery state of charge and supplemental tractive effort. Most owners didn’t know it was there or what it was for. Over the lives of our two Volts we never used it. That’s the “no” part.

The “yes” part is that the normal operation of the Volt is the battery sends electricity to the electric motors and the electric motors power the wheels. The engine operates as a generator to put energy back in the battery. The difference between how the Volt was set up and how the Ramcharger will be set up is that the Volt was calibrated to maximize the amount of time the engine is off. The Ramcharger is calibrated to maintain the battery at an optimal state of charge, so it would turn on at times the Volt engine would not.

As someone who has been a train nut since I was young, it seems like this is the current homerun. While I get it is not the "same" pretty cool that you can commute on "EV" and Travel on "ICE", they just need to make them a bit more "exciting". I am not exactly sure what that is but the current offerings are very bland-ish. Or maybe I am just used to grills and cooling vents, hehe

Is that due to areo? Since you do not need cooling, so to speak. I mean look at a submarine, jellybean and bland but effective. Maybe go full EV rolling into the jellybean shape. Dodge is trying, but that car is a disaster atm.

[speedyink1]

Planes, these ultra efficient things:



It's just aerodynamic. But I agree, they need to do something about the styling to make them look a bit more attractive. The bland front looks...cheap or plastic or something. I'm sure they could figure something out. Even some vents that go to battery cooling or something, or hey, cool nothing and get spat out somewhere else. I dunno, something attractive

[FarmerFran]

So the dealer up the road from me has a Daytona Scat Pack. Loaded up. I am going to look at it this week, no not to buy just to look at it subjectively in person. The funny thing is they just got it and it has a significant discount already.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

So the dealer up the road from me has a Daytona Scat Pack. Loaded up. I am going to look at it this week, no not to buy just to look at it subjectively in person. The funny thing is they just got it and it has a significant discount already.

Seems odd, but it is the cost of being late to the party. Tesla, GM, and Hyundai have all moved way down the cost curve for EVs in the classes that they have product in. Stellantis likely set their prices a year and a half ago. Maybe longer, considering the Charger is delayed from the earlier expected release dates. You'll also find that they are offering deals on Jeep Wagoneer S. Both vehicles are pricing their launch editions in the $70k range. Since that time Tesla, GM, and Hyundai-Kia have significantly reduced the prices of their EVs.

So now the Wagoneer S is launching at $70k. It's in the same competitive set as Blazer EV and in a class below Cadillac Lyriq and Hyundai EV9. Blazer EV starts at $48k. Lyriq starts at $58k. Hyundai EV9 is a 3-row SUV that starts at $55k. So launching Wagoneer S at $70k seems just a bit ridiculous. Problem is, they've no doubt built their business case around being able to get that kind of money for the top level trims. Who's gonna pay that when you can get a more luxurious Lyriq for $10k less. Or a larger 3-row EV9 $15k less?

There are not as many competitors in the Charger competitive set, but it is still a bit ridiculous for a mid-trim EV sedan to have a higher price tag than a Cadillac.

[Martinjlm]

Interesting thing happened today. Well maybe. Most probably won't find it as interesting as I do. I was making a Costco run in the Equinox EV. As I was pulling out of my driveway, my neighbor's FIL pulled up in his Chevrolet Bolt. Then as I drove down the street I saw that a neighbor in the middle of the block had just brought home a new Tesla Model 3. Three doors down from them another neighbor had both their Model 3 and Model Y parked in the driveway. So for giggles and grins I decided to just see how many EVs I would see on my trip to Costco and back, starting with those four. The number surprised me. 46.

My drive to Costco is 14 miles, so on the 28 mile round trip I saw 46 EVs. Used to be that it was just a question of how many Teslas were out and about on a particular day. But today I saw a number of GM EVs (Blazers, Equinox, Lyriq, Silverado, Bolt, Hummer) and a quite a few Mach E. I even saw an Escalade iQ. Thing is, the EVs that I recognize that most people probably wouldn't realize were EV or that they just plain would not typically see. I was behind a Taycan Cross Turismo for a couple miles. Who ever sees one of those? Also I saw a few Kona EVs. For me it's easy to tell them apart from a regular Kona but most people would probably never notice the differences. When I parked at Costco I parked across from a Tesla Model Y that was a twin of my wife's car. Closer to the door there was a Lyriq, a Model Y, and a Cybertruck all parked together, almost as if they had planned it that way. As I was walking back to my car its perfect twin drove past me looking for a parking spot.

I saw a Nissan Ariya and a BMW XM. Most people would probably go an entire year without seeing either of those. I imagine some of the EVs I saw were company cars assigned to auto company execs and test engineers. Some might also be press cars being driven by reviewers. I was just surprised to see so many today and it made me wonder if that's a typical day and I only noticed because I made it a point to count them today.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

I don't see 46 EV's in a month

[90503]

There's gotta be some psychology behind it...Every new car or truck I've ever had seemed unique and something different for the road before I owned one. It seemed hardly anyone else had one like it.

But once I started driving it out and about, the damn same exact things were all over the place...lol

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I don't see 46 EV's in a month

It would take me almost a year to see that many. I barely see one a week here now. After Hurricane Helene, most of the ones I use to see ended up being traded in for an ICE.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I don't see 46 EV's in a month

Yeah, I was expecting 20-ish. But keeping in mind that Mach E has been around since 2019, Model 3 since 2016, and Model Y since 2020 that would explain the frequency of those sightings. But I was also seeing a surprising number of Lyriqs, Blazer EVs, Equinox EVs and more than a few Kona EVs (introduced in 2018).

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Seems odd, but it is the cost of being late to the party. Tesla, GM, and Hyundai have all moved way down the cost curve for EVs in the classes that they have product in. Stellantis likely set their prices a year and a half ago. Maybe longer, considering the Charger is delayed from the earlier expected release dates. You'll also find that they are offering deals on Jeep Wagoneer S. Both vehicles are pricing their launch editions in the $70k range. Since that time Tesla, GM, and Hyundai-Kia have significantly reduced the prices of their EVs.

So now the Wagoneer S is launching at $70k. It's in the same competitive set as Blazer EV and in a class below Cadillac Lyriq and Hyundai EV9. Blazer EV starts at $48k. Lyriq starts at $58k. Hyundai EV9 is a 3-row SUV that starts at $55k. So launching Wagoneer S at $70k seems just a bit ridiculous. Problem is, they've no doubt built their business case around being able to get that kind of money for the top level trims. Who's gonna pay that when you can get a more luxurious Lyriq for $10k less. Or a larger 3-row EV9 $15k less?

There are not as many competitors in the Charger competitive set, but it is still a bit ridiculous for a mid-trim EV sedan to have a higher price tag than a Cadillac.

You have mentioned the GC a few times being lesser than the Cadillac, I am curious on your thoughts there, I have been in many of both, and while the lower trim GC does not have a ton of features I feel it is as nice as the models it crosses at those prices and the higher level CG are as nice a Cadillac easily.

[kevint]

I live and work in a fairly high CoL area and there are definitely at least 40 Teslas in the parking lots at work on any given day, and that obviously doesn't include other EVs. Our new parking lot has 20 spots with chargers.

I think there are three CTs in my town.