Electric Vehicles

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

The battery plants I see being built south of Louisville and Columbus Ohio look like they will add a lot of jobs

[olrocker]

Good! Because when I see LG and Samsung I think Korea.

[90503]

Something else, perhaps relevant, is the distance and shipping of EV batteries for assembly. I sort of recall that ideally the batteries would not have to travel far to be assembled...Shipping, packaging, transporting numerous heavy, large ev batteries, perhaps becomes quite an expense.

An EV battery plant near assembly plants seems like a good idea...

Maybe not an issue...dunno...

https://www.sdcexec.com/sustainabili...rt-regulations

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Anyway, he was unclear on whether they will still refer to the batteries from the Ohio and Tennessee plants as Ultium. He did say that the plants are still referred to as Ultium plants.

I suppose the "LT1" designation could be cleared for re-use. Would only be like the 4th time.

[silversleeper]

I'll just drop this here for the people who wrongly think people are actually putting their money where their mouth is. The damn gubmen won't let us buy what we all want.

Jeep Grand Cherokee L Loses Its V8 Because Less Than 4 Percent Of Customers Wanted It

https://autos.yahoo.com/jeep-grand-c...143009066.html

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Something else, perhaps relevant, is the distance and shipping of EV batteries for assembly. I sort of recall that ideally the batteries would not have to travel far to be assembled...Shipping, packaging, transporting numerous heavy, large ev batteries, perhaps becomes quite an expense.

An EV battery plant near assembly plants seems like a good idea...

Maybe not an issue...dunno...

https://www.sdcexec.com/sustainabili...rt-regulations

Most definitely an issue. Here’s an EXTREME example. Hummer EV is built in Hamtramck (Detroit) plant. The battery cells are manufactured in Warren, Ohio. The battery pack is assembled somewhere in between (too busy / lazy…take yer pick… to look up the exact location). The 200kWh battery pack weighs roughly as much as a Civic Si. How far do you really wanna ship that thing?

This again gets at the heart of the IRA Incentive. For a vehicle to qualify for the incentive, which goes to the buyer not the car company, the vehicle has to be built in North America (jobs) using batteries that are made and assembled in North America (more jobs) and using minerals that are mined and processed in friendly nations (not China, Russia, or N. Korea). So the idea is IF you decide you want to buy an EV, we’ll provide some incentive for you to buy one that supports jobs in the US. I can live with that.

[FarmerFran]

Looked at a Grand Cherokee 4xe today. Actually not bad, really not bad with the incentives

Not an EV and the EV portion is somewhat lacking but for some 25 miles is all they need

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

I'll just drop this here for the people who wrongly think people are actually putting their money where their mouth is. The damn gubmen won't let us buy what we all want.

Jeep Grand Cherokee L Loses Its V8 Because Less Than 4 Percent Of Customers Wanted It

https://autos.yahoo.com/jeep-grand-c...143009066.html

Yeah, but they had it for those 4%, and it wasn't like it was just in that vehicle. It was in all their vehicles. You look at the JGC crowd and you see they want luxury over speed, and that thing is super luxurious, especially at the price point. Now what was the Durango %? Probably not much more but that crowd would buy all of them in the V8 if they were not priced out.

So it wasn't like they made this special V8 for a V8 vehicle, it was a cookie cutter V8 that they put in everything, but the buyer of that particular vehicle did not care or did not want to spend the extra $ on it. But goes back to win a race on Sunday and sell a car on Monday mentality. And damn it worked.

Would the CT5-V exist with out the CT5? Would the CT4-V exist without the CT4? ZL1 without a V6 LT1?

This game has been played for decades and the electrification is making it harder. Is what it is

[genxer]

Stellantis is a terrifically run business. Managing CAFE and carbon credits is helping them greatly. They're not struggling at all.

The drop of Ultium seems linked to having expected batteries to get cheaper than they did with low electric prices, for comparatively heavy mainstream EVs. Rigging the vehicle market toward the foibles of early adopters is spending good money after bad - protective tariffs beat incentives.

gm announced 6.5C LFP cells. LFPs would work out better in small vehicles, and larger plug-in hybrids. Spitball numbers, an LFP Bolt could dc charge for 6-7 minutes, then do a 1.5-2 hour highway stint.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

Stellantis is a terrifically run business. Managing CAFE and carbon credits is helping them greatly. They're not struggling at all.

I’m seriously trying to understand if this is sarcasm. Or maybe a remark considering the European Stellantis entities and not the US entities. Stellantis US is BY FAR in the worst compliance position of any automaker doing business in the US. They have a credit surplus because they are still living off the credits they buy from Tesla. The 4Xe portfolio is helping them get healthy, but they are way behind the rest of the North American auto industry in terms of CAFE compliance.

Originally Posted by genxer

The drop of Ultium seems linked to having expected batteries to get cheaper than they did with low electric prices, for comparatively heavy mainstream EVs. Rigging the vehicle market toward the foibles of early adopters is spending good money after bad - protective tariffs beat incentives.

gm announced 6.5C LFP cells. LFPs would work out better in small vehicles, and larger plug-in hybrids. Spitball numbers, an LFP Bolt could dc charge for 6-7 minutes, then do a 1.5-2 hour highway stint.

GM is NOT dropping the Ultium product. They are ceasing using the Ultium name to refer to their EV platform vehicles. It is still unclear whether they will continue to refer to the batteries produced at their Warren, Ohio and Spring Hill, Tennessee plants as Ultium batteries.

The change in use of the name is not due to any issue with the product. It is specifically because Ultium can only apply to products using the batteries produced from the joint venture with LG Chem to build batteries at Warren and Spring Hill plants. Now that GM has entered into an additional joint venture with LG Chem’s competitor, Samsung SDI to produce LFP batteries they are making it clear that the Ultium name will not attach to any of the products using those batteries. LFP batteries are NOT REPLACING Ultium batteries. They are IN ADDITION TO Ultium batteries. They have different operating characteristics. NMC, NMA, and NMCA Lithium Ion batteries have faster discharge and release more energy when they discharge. LFP batteries are lower cost and less susceptible to thermal runaway than NMC, NMA, NMCA. Putting it in a relatable engine framework, LFP is the V6 of electric vehicles. NMC, NMA, and NMCA are the V8 of electric vehicles. GM will be using both. Tesla, BYD and other EV manufacturers already use both.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

I'll just drop this here for the people who wrongly think people are actually putting their money where their mouth is. The damn gubmen won't let us buy what we all want.

Jeep Grand Cherokee L Loses Its V8 Because Less Than 4 Percent Of Customers Wanted It

https://autos.yahoo.com/jeep-grand-c...143009066.html

How much was the upcharge to get the V8? And how much of that amount had to go to buy carbon offsets/credits? If we're in the cost manipulation game, what would be the take rate on the V8 if it cost the same as the V6 option? Yes, surprise, the regulatory state is affecting/limiting consumer choices. Hooray.

[genxer]

The first part was sarcasm definitely. Saw Tavares is out.
I do hope they choose a graceful cancellation for Silverado/Sierra EV and the sub-SS Blazer EV. The current others have a better shot.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

I'll just drop this here for the people who wrongly think people are actually putting their money where their mouth is. The damn gubmen won't let us buy what we all want.

Jeep Grand Cherokee L Loses Its V8 Because Less Than 4 Percent Of Customers Wanted It

https://autos.yahoo.com/jeep-grand-c...143009066.html

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Yeah, but they had it for those 4%, and it wasn't like it was just in that vehicle. It was in all their vehicles. You look at the JGC crowd and you see they want luxury over speed, and that thing is super luxurious, especially at the price point. Now what was the Durango %? Probably not much more but that crowd would buy all of them in the V8 if they were not priced out.

So it wasn't like they made this special V8 for a V8 vehicle, it was a cookie cutter V8 that they put in everything, but the buyer of that particular vehicle did not care or did not want to spend the extra $ on it. But goes back to win a race on Sunday and sell a car on Monday mentality. And damn it worked.

Would the CT5-V exist with out the CT5? Would the CT4-V exist without the CT4? ZL1 without a V6 LT1?

This game has been played for decades and the electrification is making it harder. Is what it is

Originally Posted by Capricio

How much was the upcharge to get the V8? And how much of that amount had to go to buy carbon offsets/credits? If we're in the cost manipulation game, what would be the take rate on the V8 if it cost the same as the V6 option? Yes, surprise, the regulatory state is affecting/limiting consumer choices. Hooray.

All of this is hypothetical and moot. Basically it’s bad reporting in the original article. Dodge /Ram / Stellantis announced over a year ago that they were shutting down Hemi and replacing it with the 3.0L Inline 6. This article is from May 2023. https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ane-six-report

The 5.7L and the 6.4L were the first to go. They kept a few Hellcat applications around (TRX, the Last Call cars) but eventually that shuts down too. So it has nothing to do with take rates or option pricing. It has totally to do with they’ve decided to go a different way with their engine power technology. Instead of a big displacement OHV they’ve moved on to a consolidated 0.5L per cylinder DOHC design with and without boosting.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

GM is NOT dropping the Ultium product. They are ceasing using the Ultium name to refer to their EV platform vehicles. It is still unclear whether they will continue to refer to the batteries produced at their Warren, Ohio and Spring Hill, Tennessee plants as Ultium batteries.

Still the same universal skateboard "ultium" chassis for everything, from subcompacts to full size trucks, though, right? Just different cells inside?