Electric Vehicles

[90503]

I find it ironic that the EVs quickness is touted as such a fabulous "muscle car" type improvement for the quarter mile (and street racing...lol), yet the Camaro and big V-8s are said to be out of favor, unpopular and non-sellers that must be ended.

I think comparisons between the two are a waste of time and will gain no interest with ICE fans.

I agree and have said before, ICE and EVs are two completely different animals. Trying to popularize EVs as "just a different sort of propulsion" and expecting that to be a suitable replacement for ICE is ridiculous and insulting.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by 90503

Trying to popularize EVs as "just a different sort of propulsion" and expecting that to be a suitable replacement for ICE is ridiculous and insulting.

Thank you. That sums it up perfectly.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by 90503

I find it ironic that the EVs quickness is touted as such a fabulous "muscle car" type improvement for the quarter mile (and street racing...lol), yet the Camaro and big V-8s are said to be out of favor, unpopular and non-sellers that must be ended.

I think comparisons between the two are a waste of time and will gain no interest with ICE fans.

I agree and have said before, ICE and EVs are two completely different animals. Trying to popularize EVs as "just a different sort of propulsion" and expecting that to be a suitable replacement for ICE is ridiculous and insulting.

Riiight. Camaro's and big V8s are just flying off the sales lot like hotcakes and no one wants a BEV No use to even talk about what it's like to own one because ICE ONLY fanboi's can't grasp. On that note, Lucid Sapphire is limiting it's production to 250 units, the Mustang above to 30 units...


In related news another multi million $ fine against mod sellers. It is increasing hard to get away with mods or buying them. Getting and keeping your vehicle stock is not a bad idea now. https://www.thedrive.com/news/feds-n...ions-equipment

[Capricio]

Maybe a $7500 rebate could have helped drive sales?

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

Riiight. Camaro's and big V8s are just flying off the sales lot like hotcakes and no one wants a BEV

GM failed the Camaro - particular the 6th Gen - for a multitude of reasons discussed in other threads. None of which had to do with the car itself (chassis, engine, drivetrain, design).

Meanwhile at Ford, Mustang sales are up since GM killed the Camaro and Stellantis put a speaker in place of the Hemi. And the new Charger is ugly anyway.

Mustang - INCLUDING and IN PARTICULAR the ICE V8 and true three pedal manual transmission - are not only continuing production but recently Bill Ford jr stated the entire company is committed to the V8 GT with a stick alive and well long term after all the others are dead and gone.

They are investing money to future generations of the Mustang GT V8 stick.

Camaro failure is directly and solely the responsibility and blame of Queen Mary and her push to go all electric.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

I find it ironic that the EVs quickness is touted as such a fabulous "muscle car" type improvement for the quarter mile (and street racing...lol), yet the Camaro and big V-8s are said to be out of favor, unpopular and non-sellers that must be ended.

I don’t know of really anybody beyond extreme environmentalists who even suggest that Camaros and big V8s should be ended. I know I would love to see a 7th Gen Camaro (there’s another thread covering that). Thing is, the automakers are ending them. They aren’t being told to end them, but when they develop their long term product portfolios, big V8 cars don’t pass through the filter of profitable product lines except for Mustang and Corvette.

Originally Posted by 90503

I think comparisons between the two are a waste of time and will gain no interest with ICE fans.

Totally agree. Different tools for different jobs. Where the issue gets murky is when you have generic family vehicles that can outperform specialized performance vehicles.

Originally Posted by 90503

I agree and have said before, ICE and EVs are two completely different animals. Trying to popularize EVs as "just a different sort of propulsion" and expecting that to be a suitable replacement for ICE is ridiculous and insulting.

And this is where I disagree. BEVs are, for the most part, a different propulsion system that changes the game on how people might choose to go from point A to point B. Ideally, buyers should be able to choose whether they want a vehicle powered by gasoline, diesel, electricity, or hydrogen. Realistically, automakers don’t want to spend the billions required to offer such broad choice. A few years ago, they were tripping over each other to commit to portfolios stocked with EVs and threw a lot of money behind that. Now they are backpedaling a bit and trying to find the right balance of ICE, Hybrid, and BEV.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Kudos to Ford for commiting to the Mustang. My first car was a Mustang and although I no longer identify as a Mustang person I could go back no problem.

But lets not forget... before the Camaro was brought back and the Mustang had no competition it, the Mustang, was an underpowered crapmobile. So lets hope history doesn't repeat itself and Ford doesn't let the Mustang slide into mediocrity.

[FarmerFran]

Now I remember why I stay away from this thread, so much hate getting thrown around.

so for the hate... I looked at a Model 3 but ended on this

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

FWIW I do not race EVs. I prefer to race my Camaro and road track my MR2. But when people post opinion stated as fact I have a really annoying habit of finding facts that conflict with the opinion. You think EVs are toaster ovens, I find a clip (one of many) of a toaster oven toasting a muscle car. It happens. Get over it.

Eh, that EV went 114.7 mph in the 1/4. The hellcat went 140 mph. Totally different class of speed. If you looked at the 60-100 mph split the 3 is around 5.5 seconds, while that particular hellcat would be under 3. About double the acceleration. Plus while the 3 technically crossed the line first, it went 11.6 compared to the spinnin ain’t winning hellcat that went 11.3@140.

Also, the 3 was so underwhelming on the top end at 100+ that I thought he let off before the end of the run, but he didn’t, it’s just really slow above 100 mph.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Eh, that EV went 114.7 mph in the 1/4. The hellcat went 140 mph. Totally different class of speed. If you looked at the 60-100 mph split the 3 is around 5.5 seconds, while that particular hellcat would be under 3. About double the acceleration. Plus while the 3 technically crossed the line first, it went 11.6 compared to the spinnin ain’t winning hellcat that went 11.3@140.

Also, the 3 was so underwhelming on the top end at 100+ that I thought he let off before the end of the run, but he didn’t, it’s just really slow above 100 mph.

Everything you said is 100% true. But how much time do any of us spend over 100 mph? Enough to make a purchase decision based on that parameter? At the end of the day, the whole point of running quarter mile tracks is to cross the line first. And the Model 3 P consistently does that better than the Hellcat. All the discussion of what happens after the light is tripped is just “what about…” and “yeah but…”. It did the job that was in front of it better than the other one.

Now. If it was a half mile track? Hellcat all day. But it wasn’t.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Everything you said is 100% true. But how much time do any of us spend over 100 mph? Enough to make a purchase decision based on that parameter? At the end of the day, the whole point of running quarter mile tracks is to cross the line first. And the Model 3 P consistently does that better than the Hellcat. All the discussion of what happens after the light is tripped is just “what about…” and “yeah but…”. It did the job that was in front of it better than the other one.

Now. If it was a half mile track? Hellcat all day. But it wasn’t.

Ah So, making excuses to defend your EV opinion now.

Again, strap those P&W thrusters on the Hellcat or your defense of EV in racing ICE is moot.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Kudos to Ford for commiting to the Mustang. My first car was a Mustang and although I no longer identify as a Mustang person I could go back no problem.

But lets not forget... before the Camaro was brought back and the Mustang had no competition it, the Mustang, was an underpowered crapmobile. So lets hope history doesn't repeat itself and Ford doesn't let the Mustang slide into mediocrity.

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Now I remember why I stay away from this thread, so much hate getting thrown around.

so for the hate... I looked at a Model 3 but ended on this

If anyone is watching the Wisconsin/‘Bama game right now Ford just aired a new commercial touting - GASP - a Mustang GT on a track!!!!

I say this because the prevailing opinion of the GM current/former/retired employees on this forum continue to insist GM didn’t need to “waste money” promoting the Camaro. So, in their convoluted and obstructed brain fog, it was NOT a contributing factor to low Camaro sales.

Ford just made a few people across the country perk up and want to go AT LEAST check out Ford’s website and configure their own Mustang. Guarantee it.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

140 mph trap is a low 10 sec car. Coupled with the fact that it doesn't even twitch while the Tesla takes off leads me to believe that this particular Hellcat lost on purpose so they could make yet another "EV beats Hellcat" video.

There are Teslas that can beat that Hellcat, just not the one in the video.

There are Hellcats that particular Tesla can beat, just not the one in the video

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

If anyone is watching the Wisconsin/‘Bama game right now Ford just aired a new commercial touting - GASP - a Mustang GT on a track!!!!

I say this because the prevailing opinion of the GM current/former/retired employees on this forum continue to insist GM didn’t need to “waste money” promoting the Camaro. So, in their convoluted and obstructed brain fog, it was NOT a contributing factor to low Camaro sales.

Ford just made a few people across the country perk up and want to go AT LEAST check out Ford’s website and configure their own Mustang. Guarantee it.

Check the list of Top 25 vehicles sold in America and then list which ones of those advertise on TV. I’ll give the list of the Top 25 and I’ll even spot you three…Silverado, F150, Ram. You’ll be hard pressed to find three others that advertise on TV. And yet, they sell. That’s how important TV advertising is for car sales. A couple things really surprised me about this list. Subaru has (3) models on the list. That may have something to do with advertising. But they don’t advertise the three vehicles on the list. They advertise the company’s support of the National Park system and their support of animal focused organizations. The whole “dog-friendly” thing. The other is that Camry and Civic are the only two cars in the top 10 (Corolla is #11). For years they were each number 1, 2, or 3 on the list.

So, my question is…”If advertising on TV is so all important, how did most of these vehicles get on the Top 25 list without advertising on TV?”

1. Ford F-Series
2. Chevrolet Silverado
3. Toyota RAV4
4. Tesla Model Y
5. Honda CR-V
6. Ram pickup
7. Toyota Camry
8. GMC Sierra
9. Nissan Rogue
10. Honda Civic
11. Toyota Corolla
12. Jeep Grand Cherokee
13. Chevrolet Equinox
14. Ford Explorer
15. Subaru Forrester
16. Hyundai Tucson
17. Chevrolet Trax
18. Nissan Sentra
19. Ford Transit
20. Subaru Outback
21. Honda Accord
22. Kia Sportage
23. Subaru Crosstrek
24. Toyota Tundra
25. Jeep Wrangler