BMW M240i as a Camaro alternative

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by Staves

BMWs make fine machines. The M340i and M240i are my personal favorites. They are just way more coin than my 1SS was and more than I wanted to spend. But both BMWs are great cars and fast as hell on public roads. I love my SS as well. Those who bash Beemers as garbage and drive Chevys like me are hilarious. As in dumb redneck hilarious.

BMW has been hit or miss. Probably all auto makers have been that way for a long time. GMs of the 80s and 90s were largely crap. Compared to what BMW and Europe were putting out, they were crap. Compared to what the Japanese started doing in the 80s, they were crap.

GM "awoke" as far as performance cars go about 15 years ago, with "serious" versions of cars that maybe existed in name for a while, but not in heart or soul. We started getting the G8, Cadillac Vs, C6 and C7, and the list goes on and on. Serious performance stuff that was designed generally from the ground-up. I don't have much respect for Ford in this area, because by and large they just don't play the game at all and when they do, it's often a half-assed attempt that comes with skinny wheels or some other huge handicap. If they wanted, they could have multiple serious performance cars, but they did not. GM did. Good for GM.

BMW hasn't been all roses. The F3x cars were pretty bad in driving dynamics. They had a big dead-spot in the steering, the electronic steering was generally uncommunicative and they got ripped everywhere for it. The new generation is better, but they still get some flak for the electronic steering feel, while others like GM and Porsche get accolades for their efforts with the same technology. Suspension and other aspects of the F3x were just pretty poor compared to their previous standards and the fun of the previous cars. This is probably where BMW is tearing itself apart, trying to maintain an enthusiast image and sell something "fun", realizing that the majority of sales are made up by people wanting boring soft cars (SUVs really). But that doesn't mean they can't make some good cars and it doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider them either. That M2C seems to have reversed a LOT of the issues of the previous versions. The C and CS version appear to be the real deal.

Then there's that 2-series Gran Coupe abomination. Yeah, not everything hits it out of the park.

Something like an M240 can be a great fun car. The short wheelbase keeps it nimble and makes it more ideal for something like Autocross and that kind of racing/competition is far more accessible to far more people with less financial and other risks. How many people with 1LEs are racing them hard on big tracks? Yes, a lot do, but a lot do not too. I don't, I got it mainly for the handling and suspension day-to-day.

It also reminds me of all the tests where they would put a BMW 3.0 turbo drivetrain vehicle against other similar vehicles. The BMW might be a bit more expensive, but it would be delivering a lot more torque and WAY more torque beneath the curve due to it coming on so soon, so it would typically smash the other cars that often had a similar HP rating at the crank as the BMW's "advertised" HP, but they weren't even on the same planet in terms of available torque and the BMW would just crush.

I do have issues with some of the BMW stuff, but I have issues with some of the GM stuff too. It's especially annoying when you know an automaker COULD make something or address a problem, but they just choose not to. Some of these smaller displacement engines are getting VERY high strung too, I'm not sure you will want to be holding on to one for more than a few years...

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

BMW has been hit or miss. Probably all auto makers have been that way for a long time. GMs of the 80s and 90s were largely crap. Compared to what BMW and Europe were putting out, they were crap. Compared to what the Japanese started doing in the 80s, they were crap.

GM "awoke" as far as performance cars go about 15 years ago, with "serious" versions of cars that maybe existed in name for a while, but not in heart or soul. We started getting the G8, Cadillac Vs, C6 and C7, and the list goes on and on. Serious performance stuff that was designed generally from the ground-up. I don't have much respect for Ford in this area, because by and large they just don't play the game at all and when they do, it's often a half-assed attempt that comes with skinny wheels or some other huge handicap. If they wanted, they could have multiple serious performance cars, but they did not. GM did. Good for GM.

BMW hasn't been all roses. The F3x cars were pretty bad in driving dynamics. They had a big dead-spot in the steering, the electronic steering was generally uncommunicative and they got ripped everywhere for it. The new generation is better, but they still get some flak for the electronic steering feel, while others like GM and Porsche get accolades for their efforts with the same technology. Suspension and other aspects of the F3x were just pretty poor compared to their previous standards and the fun of the previous cars. This is probably where BMW is tearing itself apart, trying to maintain an enthusiast image and sell something "fun", realizing that the majority of sales are made up by people wanting boring soft cars (SUVs really). But that doesn't mean they can't make some good cars and it doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider them either. That M2C seems to have reversed a LOT of the issues of the previous versions. The C and CS version appear to be the real deal.

Then there's that 2-series Gran Coupe abomination. Yeah, not everything hits it out of the park.

Something like an M240 can be a great fun car. The short wheelbase keeps it nimble and makes it more ideal for something like Autocross and that kind of racing/competition is far more accessible to far more people with less financial and other risks. How many people with 1LEs are racing them hard on big tracks? Yes, a lot do, but a lot do not too. I don't, I got it mainly for the handling and suspension day-to-day.

It also reminds me of all the tests where they would put a BMW 3.0 turbo drivetrain vehicle against other similar vehicles. The BMW might be a bit more expensive, but it would be delivering a lot more torque and WAY more torque beneath the curve due to it coming on so soon, so it would typically smash the other cars that often had a similar HP rating at the crank as the BMW's "advertised" HP, but they weren't even on the same planet in terms of available torque and the BMW would just crush.

I do have issues with some of the BMW stuff, but I have issues with some of the GM stuff too. It's especially annoying when you know an automaker COULD make something or address a problem, but they just choose not to. Some of these smaller displacement engines are getting VERY high strung too, I'm not sure you will want to be holding on to one for more than a few years...

Many good points here! The best BMWs I ever owned were E30 and E36 3 series cars. My "lowly" 1988 325is used to get me around Watkins Glen faster than many other cars that had way more power. How? Simple: the car was balanced and "spoke to me". Easy to drive right at the 9.5/10 limit. I could throw that thing around all day with minimal brake mods. That’s it. Wish I still had those cars, lol.

BMW as of late isn’t as exciting as they used to be. As you pointed out, the once perfect steering and road feel has gone the way of Mercedes Benz. Yawn. Instead of being sports cars wrapped in sedan bodies they are more like, well, just sedans. Marginally sporty family cars. My BMW mechanic from way back when, who I still chat with occasionally doesn’t like the newer cars at all. They have the "numbers" and specs but something is missing. He gets it. I do too.

[Umbriel]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Many good points here! The best BMWs I ever owned were E30 and E36 3 series cars. My "lowly" 1988 325is used to get me around Watkins Glen faster than many other cars that had way more power. How? Simple: the car was balanced and "spoke to me". Easy to drive right at the 9.5/10 limit. I could throw that thing around all day with minimal brake mods. That’s it. Wish I still had those cars, lol.



BMW as of late isn’t as exciting as they used to be. As you pointed out, the once perfect steering and road feel has gone the way of Mercedes Benz. Yawn. Instead of being sports cars wrapped in sedan bodies they are more like, well, just sedans. Marginally sporty family cars. My BMW mechanic from way back when, who I still chat with occasionally doesn’t like the newer cars at all. They have the "numbers" and specs but something is missing. He gets it. I do too.

How many of these newer BMW have you driven? I've read nothing but rave reviews about the new M2, M3, M4 and M8s.

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[Camaro fanboy]

i dont care how good these cars maybe.
in a short while they will be yesterdays cars and nobody will want them.
your 100k german dream machine will soon be worth 30k..and it'll happen quickly. soon as a new model is released.
ok if you're filthy rich and money is no problem.but for a normal person it's a big problem

[Vaska]

Originally Posted by khcoaching

The M2c is an amazing car and was second on my list to the SS 1LE. For me, the main issue was lap time capability vs expense. In that magazine test, the M2c is 2.3 seconds a lap slower and to get that 2.3 seconds to equal the Camaro, costs $$. The Camaro is so much more lap time capable at a fraction of the cost. To be clear - the M2c is a joy to drive and in my case, i am talking about the last 5% of performance. That first 95%, the M2c is beyond a blast to drive and if I wasn't concerned solely on lap time, I would have one.

Ken

Putting the performance aside, the M2s are $20k more than 1LEs around these parts. They were anyway before Covid prices ballooned. I don’t see $20k worth of performance in that vehicle over the Camaro and I don’t have infinite funds to drop into a massive depreciating toy. The M240i is more in line with pricing but you can’t even compare the difference in overall driving feel. You don’t cross shop the two.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Vaska

Putting the performance aside, the M2s are $20k more than 1LEs around these parts. They were anyway before Covid prices ballooned. I don’t see $20k worth of performance in that vehicle over the Camaro and I don’t have infinite funds to drop into a massive depreciating toy. The M240i is more in line with pricing but you can’t even compare the difference in overall driving feel. You don’t cross shop the two.

well i 'cross shopped' sort of. My old car was a 128i (great car!). I wanted to replace it with a 2 series of some sort. Didn't like the 228i/230i i4, and you can never find a 2wd manual even though you could spec them that way. Worked my way up to a used M2, and it was great! Thought i was done... then on a whim test drove the ss 1le

[hotlap]

A M2 Competition manual with special paint, executive package and moonroof has an msrp of 62,695 including destination. Roughly $10,000 more than my 2SS 1LE M6.

The Camaro is a better value and performer but the M2 Competition with manual rings all the right bells and is obtainable. Once Camaro is gone it would be a much better choice than a Mach 1 or Challenger

[Staves]

My Dad has a M235i xdrive. My Mom always hated it saying it drove too harsh and she preferred her Sonata.

My 84yr old car enthusiast Dad passed away this year and for the last 6 months, my Mom has only driven the M235i. She loves the small size and the power all of a sudden. It was always funny to my Dad and I to hear her bash it and then get in a Sonata. She has sold her Sonata (for cheap) to my sister in law. I’ve driven the 235 many times. I can see why she likes it. It’s a nice car. Good combo of sport and comfort. But I prefer the SS personally.

[Vaska]

Originally Posted by Hops

well i 'cross shopped' sort of. My old car was a 128i (great car!). I wanted to replace it with a 2 series of some sort. Didn't like the 228i/230i i4, and you can never find a 2wd manual even though you could spec them that way. Worked my way up to a used M2, and it was great! Thought i was done... then on a whim test drove the ss 1le

That’s how I got into mine as well. Friend recommended it and one happened to be locally in all of Canada at the time. The driving experience reminded me of my older E92s but with way more torque. Price, mileage and condition was right and I jumped on it.

[6spdhyperblue]

agree with many here that BMW is just not my cup of tea these days.

[Chutzpah]

I’d buy a M2…no hate here. Just wish it was a bit cheaper.

[Need4Camaro]

How is the BMW running similar times to the SS with the same weight and almost 100 less HP?

[IneedAZ]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

How is the BMW running similar times to the SS with the same weight and almost 100 less HP?

Traction...the Xdrive that i have is 3 tenths faster than the rwd only model yet mine is heavier cause of the awd parts.

[Fak_Ork]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

How is the BMW running similar times to the SS with the same weight and almost 100 less HP?

Good question.

Originally Posted by IneedAZ

Traction...the Xdrive that i have is 3 tenths faster than the rwd only model yet mine is heavier cause of the awd parts.

In this case, that's not the answer. The BMW M340i in the article I referenced below is rear wheel drive. For a brief time, it has been reported that early B58 motors were underrated, but I believe that may have been corrected- Officially, and with notice from BMW- by the time the article came out. Hard to say why the BMW is able to rip so hard but low RPM Turbo performance is a known factor in favor of blown motors in these comparisons. Transmission performance may also favor the M340i slightly.

M340i 2WD A8 here: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
2019 A10 SS for comparison: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/