Honda, Stop Lying to Yourself

[The_Blur]

Stripped cars run a fine line between being unattractively cheap and glorious performers. For instance, a stripped Monza can make a heck of a great racer. On the other side of things, there's the CR-X, an ugly hatchback with nothing in it that came with a price that reflected its lack of features and comforts. For this reason, ricers fell in love. They could throw in Recaros worth more than the car, hideous rims, functionless wings with spans as large as a small aircraft, and HID kits, multiplying the cost of the car very quickly while at the same time managing to reduce its value even further. This atrocity was such a success that Honda has decided to bring out the CR-Z.

Apparently, it is agains the laws of nature to name a new platform the same thing as a previous platform. We call that tradition here. A new Camaro is just as much a Camaro as an old Camaro. In Japan, a new 350Z is a 370Z, even if the changes are marginal. Apparently, the CR-X is now a CR-Z. I can only imagine what letter combination they call the next ugly, stripped hatch. I bet the first two letters are "C" and "R".

This vehicle features a strikingly hideous appearance, but Inside Line can only really discuss whether it is as fun to drive as the CR-X. :( If anyone but Honda built the CR-X, I can only imagine that members of the press would post furious reviews decrying the miserable quality of the product, then lighting torches to burn down the headquarters and massacre the associates inside. It is fortunate that Honda made this product so that these writers could decry how no other company could make such a stunning product with such economical means. They did it with the Insight, after all. Here, they are bound to do it again.

Inside Line has elected to compare the CR-Z with the Tesla Roadster without the substantial expense. At that point, I stopped reading and posted this.

I am so furiously disgusted with this product that I want to throw rocks at Honda's headquarters until I hit the people who came up with this disgrace and knock some sense, and a little pain, into them.

Discuss.

[christianmotox]

I Like it, I think its a good attempt to make a Hybrid look decent., Im not saying its as good looking as the Camaro, but i kind a like it.

Plus this one will come with navigation and a whole lot of goddies. I think they just want to relate to the old CR-X, but i believe they are totally different.

Plus its gonna be the first hybrid with a 6 speed manual

[FenwickHockey65]

This should be the definition of front overhang.

[a_Username]

If it wasn't a hatchback, I think it would be passable in looks.

This Fit-based 1.5 is no sports-car engine and starts to get loud at around 5,000 rpm. Keep the hammer down and all too soon you find the engine stuttering as it hits the ignition cutout at 6,500 rpm. Worked hard, the engine sounds flat and hard — not exciting at all. And when you're on the limit rather than just pushing along, the CR-Z gives in to soggy, plowing understeer, and the body rolls over in distress. And a few hot runs up and down the hills soon had the brakes smoking. Yikes.

You have this and they still manage to compare it to the roadster? But my biggest gripe is the $25K starting price.

[WadeWilson]

I know there will be many people who will flock and buy one but no thanks. I'm sure they'll start showing up all over the place here in the Bay Area.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

This vehicle features a strikingly hideous appearance, but Inside Line can only really discuss whether it is as fun to drive as the CR-X. :( If anyone but Honda built the CR-X, I can only imagine that members of the press would post furious reviews decrying the miserable quality of the product, then lighting torches to burn down the headquarters and massacre the associates inside. It is fortunate that Honda made this product so that these writers could decry how no other company could make such a stunning product with such economical means. They did it with the Insight, after all. Here, they are bound to do it again.

Inside Line has elected to compare the CR-Z with the Tesla Roadster without the substantial expense. At that point, I stopped reading and posted this.


I am so furiously disgusted with this product that I want to throw rocks at Honda's headquarters until I hit the people who came up with this disgrace and knock some sense, and a little pain, into them.

Discuss.

This car is targeted for younger people who want a nice little car that's fun to drive in the twisties, but is also environmentally efficient and friendly, a hybrid version of the mini cooper. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone should hate it
Name me one hybrid under 35k that is hip and fun-to-drive.
It's funny that you bash this car. What do you think of the upcoming volt?

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

This car is targeted for younger people who want a nice little car that's fun to drive in the twisties, but is also environmentally efficient and friendly, a hybrid version of the mini cooper. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone should hate it
Name me one hybrid under 35k that is hip and fun-to-drive.
It's funny that you bash this car. What do you think of the upcoming volt?

I think the upcoming Volt isn't trying to race or bring back the badge from a car that was ultimately a garbage vehicle.

I'm not disputing that this is an affordable hybrid or that it might even be fun to drive, although I have serious doubts on the latter point. I'm pointing out that the yuppie press has decided to back this vehicle. It is also worth noting that the Aveo gets mileage not far off from this and costs substantially less.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I think the upcoming Volt isn't trying to race or bring back the badge from a car that was ultimately a garbage vehicle.

I'm not disputing that this is an affordable hybrid or that it might even be fun to drive, although I have serious doubts on the latter point. I'm pointing out that the yuppie press has decided to back this vehicle. It is also worth noting that the Aveo gets mileage not far off from this and costs substantially less.

The aveo is not fun to drive, for one. It is also not a hybrid, and the word "hybrid" carries a lot of weight with the average consumer.
We'll just have to wait and see as far as this car goes. If it has a "go-kart" like feeling, similar to the mini, or even close to the mini's feeling, then it should be a great success.

[Michael_Js]

I really enjoyed my CRX Si when I was much younger Would hit the redline through 4th gear! Never did much in the way of mods to it though. The CR-Z, IMO, is ugly...I don't like the pregnant rear end

[Revo1]

I've always been stumped by the belief that some of my old friends used to hold onto- that the CRX is a race car. One buddy was absolutely in love with the CRX, and was always telling me how great they could be if you made some changes (new motor, fat turbo, suspension mods, weight reduction) and I would always ask, why not just spend the money that you spent on those mods to get a car that is fundamentally fast, and not designed to be an econobox with no regard for performance at all? He never had an answer, just held doggedly to his desire to own a "monster CRX"

I could almost understand if the car was nice to look at. Correction if the car was ____ing beautiful, I could understand the desire to mod it into a speed machine. Thing is, it's NOT.

I don't get it either BLUR. If you figure it out, let me know...


As far as the Tesla goes- they're joking, right?

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

The aveo is not fun to drive, for one. It is also not a hybrid, and the word "hybrid" carries a lot of weight with the average consumer.
We'll just have to wait and see as far as this car goes. If it has a "go-kart" like feeling, similar to the mini, or even close to the mini's feeling, then it should be a great success.

The Aveo has a usable back seat and costs so much less that you could buy two depending on the rebates. For the difference in price, this should be an expectation, along with fuel economy in excess of the Cruze. The Cruze will have more space, more fuel economy, more power, and a back seat. At this price point, you could get a Camaro LT.

Let's also evaluate the posted horsepower and torque numbers. The electric motor has its own curve on the dyno that peaks early for both numbers. This is great news for getting up to speed, but let's look now at the gas motor. Remember, the CR-Z is going to need to sell to people wanting to race. Barely into the triple digits, the gas motor is going to need some serious modification. Is that even possible with a hybrid setup? I think the fact that it is a hybrid may scare away potential tuners, the bread and butter of this market. This is the cheapest 2-seater out there, and people who want to pretend they're in a racecar are going to want to race. Will they be racing golf cars at the country club? For some reason, I'm convinced the golf carts would win.

How will a 2-seater non-sports vehicle trying to be a sports vehicle be a great success? It isn't stylish. It isn't fast. It isn't in the right price bracket. Who would have thought that a competing dealer could say, "I see that you're comparing our car with the CR-Z. Let me show you something. Ours has a back seat!" From a performance standpoint, I can understand buying a car because it is fun to drive. I did it. For the same price, a buyer can buy a fun-to-drive coupe that has a back seat. if they're in it for being green, then they can buy a Prius that has a back seat. There is no value in this car that another car lacks.

Try this on for size. Find me one thing that this car has that another car at this price or less lacks. If you can convince me that anything in this car has enough value to justify its price, I'll trade my Camaro for it. Since my Camaro was less expensive than this car, I would have to finance a little more. I won't hold my breath.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

The Aveo has a usable back seat and costs so much less that you could buy two depending on the rebates. For the difference in price, this should be an expectation, along with fuel economy in excess of the Cruze. The Cruze will have more space, more fuel economy, more power, and a back seat. At this price point, you could get a Camaro LT.

Let's also evaluate the posted horsepower and torque numbers. The electric motor has its own curve on the dyno that peaks early for both numbers. This is great news for getting up to speed, but let's look now at the gas motor. Remember, the CR-Z is going to need to sell to people wanting to race. Barely into the triple digits, the gas motor is going to need some serious modification. Is that even possible with a hybrid setup? I think the fact that it is a hybrid may scare away potential tuners, the bread and butter of this market. This is the cheapest 2-seater out there, and people who want to pretend they're in a racecar are going to want to race. Will they be racing golf cars at the country club? For some reason, I'm convinced the golf carts would win.

How will a 2-seater non-sports vehicle trying to be a sports vehicle be a great success? It isn't stylish. It isn't fast. It isn't in the right price bracket. Who would have thought that a competing dealer could say, "I see that you're comparing our car with the CR-Z. Let me show you something. Ours has a back seat!" From a performance standpoint, I can understand buying a car because it is fun to drive. I did it. For the same price, a buyer can buy a fun-to-drive coupe that has a back seat. if they're in it for being green, then they can buy a Prius that has a back seat. There is no value in this car that another car lacks.

Try this on for size. Find me one thing that this car has that another car at this price or less lacks. If you can convince me that anything in this car has enough value to justify its price, I'll trade my Camaro for it. Since my Camaro was less expensive than this car, I would have to finance a little more. I won't hold my breath.

You're mistaking something here. "Fun to drive" doesn't mean in a straight line. Minis are incredibly slow, but they are still fun to drive. The aveo is slow, ugly, and not fun to drive. It has to have the go kart feeling in steering and handling. The people who buy this aren't your racer let's go over 100mph crew. Save that for the camaro and the other big boys. This is for people who for the most part want a reliable, efficient car that is not a complete snorefest to drive. Minis sell like hotcakes even though they have no power and are on the more expensive side of small cars, and this car is a hybrid

[BigRigMike]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Try this on for size. Find me one thing that this car has that another car at this price or less lacks. If you can convince me that anything in this car has enough value to justify its price, I'll trade my Camaro for it. Since my Camaro was less expensive than this car, I would have to finance a little more. I won't hold my breath.

I have been comparing this car to the Fiesta just to see if it beats the Fiesta in anything and I am not finding anything. Other than the CVT CR-Z gets slightly better mileage. But then again you can get a Fiesta for a lot less money. It is hard to figure out why you would buy this car over a Fit except for looks. I think some of the performance handling of the CR-Z can be attributed to the max summer performance Potenza RE050A tires.

I think Honda proved with the Insight that just because it looks weird and is a hybrid does not mean it is going to sell.

[linkwpc]

Honda = no soul

Thats what I think about this car as well.