2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[macwest]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

macwest, the point is GM did it and created a bona fide Z/28...not me, or you. Where's Mopar's Dodge Challenger T/A answer?

[crickets]

Making 2+ tons run like a hot scalpel through soft butter on Mulholland Dr. is a fool's bet. Easier to "pump up the jam" and go put the shivers in a Shelby...or a Chebbie...

707 hp!!!

NHRA vs. NASCAR. And who watches more of which?

Good Guys gave up on drag races, but my buddy Trent keeps VERY busy on GG weekends running the AutoX. Tell Sergio the market has changed...

You call the z/28 a good business decision. The car is seen to most comes as a stripped down overpriced camaro. Had Gm put the 427 in with options like a zl1 it would have sold like hot cakes or Had the z/28 been mid to high 50's I would say differently But look were most are. Still collecting dust at dealerships. Dodge is wise on their route. They have many packages which should help increase total sales.

The challenger only weighs 250lbs more then the ZL1 so by your own word the ZL1 is a pig too. challenger has active suspension just like ZL1 and 6 piston brembos. So the challenger will handle just fine. I suspect just like camaro if you add in solid subframes bushings it will be like night and day on both handling and takeoffs.

As for Nascar vs NHRA. more may watch Nascar but allot more participate in NHRA Wednesday night drags. So if you are buying a car to participate in then it sounds like drag racing wins.

On pig cars only car so far that has lost weight is the mustang and even though I am not a big ford fan the new SVT mustang is a beast and if their claims are correct I think all manufactures may be chasing them.

[Runin11z]

This is by far the leader in the muscle car realm and truly embodies what a muscle car should be, affordable, quick, and stylish.. I'm a Chevrolet guy through and through, and with that said I honestly think GM missed the mark with the ZL1 and didn't thoroughly think through what the moniker meant. Being that as it may I bought one and to be honest it's not fast without mods, but it's an excellent touring car and does everything just well enough to win overall comparisons by the auto journalists.. If you look at my past posts I consider the ZL1 the "old mans" Camaro..

I think Dodge made the right move to broaden up the range of their V8 passenger car portfolio.. This is a power play by FCA to bring to the table what's on the horizon.. GM is going to sit by and let the Camaro languish due to it's great sales numbers, and the Corvette being the flagship model of GM.. In their eyes when in a debate Camaro owners can always bring up the vette or vast aftermarket support, and let's not forget the Nürburgring times...

I laugh at the fact of ZL1 owners here instantly going to mods vs. a factory stock car, that alone shows that the Hellcat deserves some respect.. Just remember when the powder metal rods give up and the hypereutectic pistons crack a ringland be ready to open your wallet to go forged as your factory warranty is null and void.. This is where GM and team camaro got lazy instead of making the Camaro ZL1 a true namesake they rested on their laurels and took the CTS-V engine and overall recipe and added some more handling in which the everyday consumer isn't going to even tap 60% of the handling capability..

I love that the Camaro family here stands up for the ZL1 but there comes a time when you have to step back and think about what you are getting ready to post.. Some of the responses here are making the Camaro look bad and making the Challenger look like a grand slam in the championship game.. /rant lol

With that being said congrats Mopar this car is going to be a beast.. The people here should prepare themselves when the Hellcat runs upper 10s on a stock tire in good DA...

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Lover

When I went google-eyed and crazy for a muscle car after I 're-discovered' them (long story) I was almost set to get an 87 Buick GN. After research and practical reasons (and I am a hard core Chevy guy) I got a brand new Camaro (black with gray interior, like the GN's).

I looked into a Challenger as well. Add the shaker hood, add etc and man that thing was well over 50k fast!

X 10 for the Hellcat IMO

Still a badass car, love it really. But in the 70k range it's Vette time or GT-R.

Yikes! I wouldn't buy GT -R !

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

I'm amazed they got this car done for $59k and supremely impressed. Dodge has officially whooped Ford and Chevy with this thing. This is now THE muscle car to have at that price range. In fact, is there any faster new car within even 20k of it? It looks great, will definitely cruise extremely smooth and runs TENSSSSS BONE STOCK WITH WARRANTY! I'm sorry but if you buy a ZL1/GT500 over this then you just don't get it.

No doubt Ford will have an answer for this maybe within a couple years. GM needs a Camaro answer that I suspect we won't get. Too much focus on handling that you'll never get to use on the street. My 99 Subaru Legacy wagon barely can go to its edge of handling on public roads. You'll never get a ZL1 there. I'd love to hear all about a ZL1 owners track times from a football field away in a Hellcat. Wake up GM, release the kraken and make a 800hp camaro, seriously. Then just take the 1LE concept and rename it to Z28, bang.

Looks like a SS or 5.0 remain the best mid level buy but for the high level cars the Hellcat very easily dominates.

The GT500 was whoopping ass## Than the ZL1 was whooping ass##! So now 6 years after the challenger came out it finally has a car to compete with ppl ZL1's and GT500's! Which are most likely putting out or closed to putting out that much HP because ppl been Modding them! So I do see a big reason for those to go trade! And I don't see why you think ppl don't get it , if they don't pick this Cat because the GT500 is still going to give it all that it can handle!

[QUOTE=Runin11z;7824077]This is by far the leader in the muscle car realm and truly embodies what a muscle car should be, affordable, quick, and stylish.. I'm a Chevrolet guy through and through, and with that said I honestly think GM missed the mark with the ZL1 and didn't thoroughly think through what the moniker meant. Being that as it may I bought one and to be honest it's not fast without mods, but it's an excellent touring car and does everything just well enough to win overall comparisons by the auto journalists.. If you look at my past posts I consider the ZL1 the "old mans" Camaro..

I think Dodge made the right move to broaden up the range of their V8 passenger car portfolio.. This is a power play by FCA to bring to the table what's on the horizon.. GM is going to sit by and let the Camaro languish due to it's great sales numbers, and the Corvette being the flagship model of GM.. In their eyes when in a debate Camaro owners can always bring up the vette or vast aftermarket support, and let's not forget the Nürburgring times...

I laugh at the fact of ZL1 owners here instantly going to mods vs. a factory stock car, that alone shows that the Hellcat deserves some respect.

I think the ZL1 did what GM made it to do and some because they made money off of it .So I'm thinking maybe next one ZL1 will be made to what you're looking for! GM played it smart because now they have all of this extra money and don't have to worry about the bailout! Plus I wanna see how many ppl buy the Cat vs how many have bought the ZL1!

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

What is Mopar's market share, today?

2013 sales figures by percentage according to Autoevolution

Camaro - 38.5%
Mustang - 36.9 %
Challenger - 24.6 %

[72MachOne99GT]

I'm not too sure the 6sp is going to be whooping the GT500s ass....they are going to be ridiculously close, and I could argue that 6sp vs 6sp the GT500 at 55k is a better deal.

That's not the point though. Dodge has released their monster and released it with an auto. That's the difference between it and the GT500. I'm not an auto fan, but recognize what it is capable of, and Ford never got into the game with one and it's cost them title of the quickest quarter mile in the muscle car game.

[87GNX]

Originally Posted by Q'smuscle

Yikes! I wouldn't buy GT -R !

Yeah, no GTR here. Maybe a used Ferrari lol..For >70k I'd want a true panty dropper.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

It's not just the tires though, the brakes make a huge improvement on the car. I had a track day this past Saturday with my club. One of our members brought his Z/28 and the braking distances of the Z/28 is vastly superior to that of an SS and ZL1.

I'm sure the brakes make a big difference. But is it 20k worth of difference? Think of everything you are sacrificing for that very slight gain in cornering ability over the ZL1. Could 2k worth of tires on the ZL1 equal the playing field? As mentioned earlier the sales for the Z/28 haven't exactly set the world on fire. IMO- the better option would have been to build a lesser expensive Z/28 based off of the 1LE with a warmed over 475-hp LS3, and then offer a track package option for the ZL1.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I'm sure the brakes make a big difference. But is it 20k worth of difference? Think of everything you are sacrificing for that very slight gain in cornering ability over the ZL1. Could 2k worth of tires on the ZL1 equal the playing field? As mentioned earlier the sales for the Z/28 haven't exactly set the world on fire. IMO- the better option would have been to build a lesser expensive Z/28 based off of the 1LE with a warmed over 475-hp LS3, and then offer a track package option for the ZL1.

Carbon ceramic brakes are expensive but allow the Z/28 to go deep into turns. I would have like to see the Z/28 offered as is but with the brakes an option. Al Oppenheiser stated in interviews that the directive was to build a no compromise track car and that's what they did.

The ZL1 was initially going to be the Z/28 but they felt it was too tech ladened and didn't match the original Z/28 heritage so they changed the name to ZL1 and started over

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Yes, 707 hp will draw traffic...as did the 638 hp ZR1 (which sold how many?) and the 662 hp GT500. "Haloes" are expected to create that sort of traffic-building...but traffic alone simply means the janitor has a dirtier floor to clean up each night...unless there's something else the customer might (italics) be interested in.

to be fair, the ZR1 is about double the cost of what the hellcat is going to be.

[Runin11z]

Originally Posted by Q'smuscle

I think the ZL1 did what GM made it to do and some because they made money off of it .So I'm thinking maybe next one ZL1 will be made to what you're looking for! GM played it smart because now they have all of this extra money and don't have to worry about the bailout! Plus I wanna see how many ppl buy the Cat vs how many have bought the ZL1!

I don't want GM to make a car "I'm looking for". I want them to make a car that grabs the soul of what made the Camaro so special.. All this debate about market shares and production numbers are meaningless to the average guy that might have one or maybe two fifth gens in the garage.. Does this mean the Camaro is a better car, no because people buy cars for different reasons.. Look at the numbers sold versus the membership numbers on this site.. The ones that bought the car without being a part of this community probably only care about aesthetics, value, and brand loyalty... Not performance in terms of its competition...

[Runin11z]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

The ZL1 was initially going to be the Z/28 but they felt it was too tech ladened and didn't match the original Z/28 heritage so they changed the name to ZL1 and started over

This is what kills me about Team Camaro saying they are staying true to the monikers they are using. The ZL1 engine option was the top COPO offered in its time and was mainly a bare bones car with a racing engine.. It was also the most expensive Camaro of its time... So if staying true means turning the ZL1 into a road track car and making the Z/28 an ultra road track car and mainly not obtainable by the same folks that would have bought them back in the day, I guess I have my wires crossed somewhere.....

And let's recall the "11's all day" statement made about the ZL1 by Mr. O maybe that was to save some face of the ZL1 to the ones that truly understood what the ZL1 was in its time... To bad he failed to mention those runs were on drag radials...

[StoutSnout]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Mopar's current sales $ucce$$e$ are based on what, exactly? RAM pickups, and JEEP...NOT their car lines, and NOT the Challenger... 3,000 units, to a company the size of Fiat-Chrysler, is very small potatoes...and if those 3,000 generate another 5,000 units, still a mighty small number. Those combined ANNUAL units are what Mustang and Camaro each sell PER MONTH, roughly...

The car will be a mosquito bite, NOT a shark attack.

Not sure if the sales argument is a plus or negative for the buyer. There's no question that Ford and Chevy sell more of these cars. As a buyer, WGAF? It's great for the company, but they aren't sending us checks in the mail. It also means that you'll be driving a car that's seen on nearly every street corner.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I'm sure the brakes make a big difference. But is it 20k worth of difference? Think of everything you are sacrificing for that very slight gain in cornering ability over the ZL1. Could 2k worth of tires on the ZL1 equal the playing field? As mentioned earlier the sales for the Z/28 haven't exactly set the world on fire. IMO- the better option would have been to build a lesser expensive Z/28 based off of the 1LE with a warmed over 475-hp LS3, and then offer a track package option for the ZL1.

It's the sum of its parts that make it a great car, not any one piece. Would I pay $75k for a Camaro with just these super sticky tires and awesome brakes for only marginally better lap times? No I wouldn't, I'm perfectly fine paying nearly $20,000 less for a car that is more comfortable and more powerful but has more weight and doesn't corner / brake as good. However one thing to consider is the heat soak and brake fade. Sure the ZL1 & Z/28 lap times are fairly close on their best runs. But lap after lap after lap is going to take a toll on the ZL1's brakes and heat soak will set in and that gap will widen. Now if you were to put the same tires on the ZL1 as the Z/28 I'd wager that each "best run" would be very similar.

I too would have liked to have seen GM offer the Z/28 as something more similar to the current 1LE. However by producing a no compromise track car I think they did good. Honestly I see the current Z/28 as more of a marketing gimmick and proof that GM still has the balls to make something ridiculous (i.e. a car that has a 7.0L V8, super sticky tires, awesome brakes, optional AC & Radio, etc). I suspect the Z/28 will only be produced through the end of the 5th Gen cycle, which means 2015 will be its last year, sound familiar Boss 302?