Ford's Answer to the Caprice: Taurus Police Interceptor

[syr74]

Originally Posted by truth411

AAAHHH syr74, Still waving the Ford banner I see, Just makeing up stuff as usual. What are these mass luxury equipment that will cut wieght 3 or 4 hundred pounds??? Other than, items like the stereo and power seats (the same can be said for the caprice aswell) what else?? I dont think Ford's 'SYNC' weighs that much.

Typical Truth 411 post, if you don't like reality replace it with your own.

Why are you wasting our time discussing things you know nothing about? Do you know what a high end, 12 way powerseat weighs? Do you know how much sound deadening goes in a loaded model like a Taurus SHO? I used to work the development and production of interior pieces on a daily basis and I know all too well what they weigh, obviously you don't. You can knock two or three hundred pounds from the interior of a modern, really well equipped car like a Taurus SHO or even a Buick LaCrosse without even trying hard.

Can you do the same with a Caprice? Maybe, I don't know how loaded that car is in base V8 trim. However, I do know exactly how loaded (or not as it would be) a similar G8 was in base trim, which is why I used that closely related car as a baseline. A base G8 GT with an auto transmissions was an easy 4000lb car and had standard 'luxury' features more in line with what the Interceptor has than a Taurus SHO. You can't shed features that aren't there to begin with.

Throw in the reality that the Caprice is larger than the G8 and there is no way a base Caprice wont weigh more than a G8 because equipment is going to be similar to what a base G8 had and the car is significantly larger.

A 4000lb car that has to gain some weight in the transition to the longer wheelbase Caprice and a 4400lb car ditching a myriad of luxury equipment. It isn't difficult to figure out how this ends.

[Fenah]

I like the Caprice better.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by syr74

Typical Truth 411 post, if you don't like reality replace it with your own.

Why are you wasting our time discussing things you know nothing about? Do you know what a high end, 12 way powerseat weighs? Do you know how much sound deadening goes in a loaded model like a Taurus SHO? I used to work the development and production of interior pieces on a daily basis and I know all too well what they weigh, obviously you don't. You can knock two or three hundred pounds from the interior of a modern, really well equipped car like a Taurus SHO or even a Buick LaCrosse without even trying hard.

Can you do the same with a Caprice? Maybe, I don't know how loaded that car is in base V8 trim. However, I do know exactly how loaded (or not as it would be) a similar G8 was in base trim, which is why I used that closely related car as a baseline. A base G8 GT with an auto transmissions was an easy 4000lb car and had standard 'luxury' features more in line with what the Interceptor has than a Taurus SHO. You can't shed features that aren't there to begin with.

Throw in the reality that the Caprice is larger than the G8 and there is no way a base Caprice wont weigh more than a G8 because equipment is going to be similar to what a base G8 had and the car is significantly larger.

A 4000lb car that has to gain some weight in the transition to the longer wheelbase Caprice and a 4400lb car ditching a myriad of luxury equipment. It isn't difficult to figure out how this ends.

+1

I would like our department to order both to see which is ultimately better for us. We already shot down the Impala, that was a horrible idea to begin with

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by syr74

Typical Truth 411 post, if you don't like reality replace it with your own.

Why are you wasting our time discussing things you know nothing about? Do you know what a high end, 12 way powerseat weighs? Do you know how much sound deadening goes in a loaded model like a Taurus SHO? I used to work the development and production of interior pieces on a daily basis and I know all too well what they weigh, obviously you don't. You can knock two or three hundred pounds from the interior of a modern, really well equipped car like a Taurus SHO or even a Buick LaCrosse without even trying hard.

Can you do the same with a Caprice? Maybe, I don't know how loaded that car is in base V8 trim. However, I do know exactly how loaded (or not as it would be) a similar G8 was in base trim, which is why I used that closely related car as a baseline. A base G8 GT with an auto transmissions was an easy 4000lb car and had standard 'luxury' features more in line with what the Interceptor has than a Taurus SHO. You can't shed features that aren't there to begin with.

Throw in the reality that the Caprice is larger than the G8 and there is no way a base Caprice wont weigh more than a G8 because equipment is going to be similar to what a base G8 had and the car is significantly larger.

A 4000lb car that has to gain some weight in the transition to the longer wheelbase Caprice and a 4400lb car ditching a myriad of luxury equipment. It isn't difficult to figure out how this ends.

The Holden Caprice is listed as weighing 1864 kilograms (4109) lbs and is described as being a luxury car. In comparison, a Commodore SS-V series (its a G8 GT without the Pontiac emblems, right down to the body work) weighs 3959 lbs. The G8 GT was listed as 3995 lbs. So, from that we can assume that a Chevy Caprice, with all the features that make its Australian cousin a luxury car, shouldn't weigh more than 4150 lbs. And the Taurus SHO, also with luxury features, comes in at ... 4361. Lets call it a 200 lbs difference, give or take a few.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

umm..... so what is really being argued?

The weight issue is practically non-existant.

As an officer, I think the most important issue is which will take the daily grind of the job at a cheaper overall cost for the department/budget over the long haul. Everybody says the turbo V6 from the SHO would be more expensive to maintain, but is there any data to back that up?

[25thanniversary]

kinda looks like the chevy volt with those head lights

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The Holden Caprice is listed as weighing 1864 kilograms (4109) lbs and is described as being a luxury car. In comparison, a Commodore SS-V series (its a G8 GT without the Pontiac emblems, right down to the body work) weighs 3959 lbs. The G8 GT was listed as 3995 lbs. So, from that we can assume that a Chevy Caprice, with all the features that make its Australian cousin a luxury car, shouldn't weigh more than 4150 lbs. And the Taurus SHO, also with luxury features, comes in at ... 4361. Lets call it a 200 lbs difference, give or take a few.

Forgot to add, the Holden Statesman (which they also call a luxury car btw) is listed as weighing 1822 kg (4016 lbs). I've heard that the Caprice over here will be what the Aussies know as the Statesman but I just sorta figure if they have a large RWD sedan named the Caprice, it would make sense.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by syr74

Typical Truth 411 post, if you don't like reality replace it with your own.

Why are you wasting our time discussing things you know nothing about? Do you know what a high end, 12 way powerseat weighs? Do you know how much sound deadening goes in a loaded model like a Taurus SHO? I used to work the development and production of interior pieces on a daily basis and I know all too well what they weigh, obviously you don't. You can knock two or three hundred pounds from the interior of a modern, really well equipped car like a Taurus SHO or even a Buick LaCrosse without even trying hard.

Can you do the same with a Caprice? Maybe, I don't know how loaded that car is in base V8 trim. However, I do know exactly how loaded (or not as it would be) a similar G8 was in base trim, which is why I used that closely related car as a baseline. A base G8 GT with an auto transmissions was an easy 4000lb car and had standard 'luxury' features more in line with what the Interceptor has than a Taurus SHO. You can't shed features that aren't there to begin with.

Throw in the reality that the Caprice is larger than the G8 and there is no way a base Caprice wont weigh more than a G8 because equipment is going to be similar to what a base G8 had and the car is significantly larger.

A 4000lb car that has to gain some weight in the transition to the longer wheelbase Caprice and a 4400lb car ditching a myriad of luxury equipment. It isn't difficult to figure out how this ends.

Please re-read my post, you list the exact same Items I said. Yes I know all about sound deadning. I interpret " a few hundred pounds" as 3 or 4 hundred (isn't that what a few means?). Since the sho is a 4350lb car, using your logic it would weight right smack at 4000lbs, Which is wishful thinking, and that is the truth. But I know, you love to spin anything to make ford look better whether the facts are there or not, its cool bro.

edit: Very intresting assumptions you made towards me.

[ssjoe]

Originally Posted by Scrappy Doo

Notice they didn't put a photo of the Caprice with a cage in it... Wonder how much room there is from the back of the cage to the front of the backseat. That's an important demension.

As far as costs go, we got some new crown vics in yesterday, MSRP was $29,415. I am sure the state bid was around $27,000 or so.

You guys pay 27k for a cruiser? Is that fully loaded, ie lights,cage,siren, etc.? We paid 23k last year, State bid! Then equipment, radio install its about 27 to 28k.

[streetshark]

Originally Posted by ssjoe

You guys pay 27k for a cruiser? Is that fully loaded, ie lights,cage,siren, etc.? We paid 23k last year, State bid! Then equipment, radio install its about 27 to 28k.

Same here, low 23's for a hemi Charger not including the lights and equipment. Granted that was in 2008 but state bid couldn't have changed that drastically.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

umm..... so what is really being argued?

The weight issue is practically non-existant.

As an officer, I think the most important issue is which will take the daily grind of the job at a cheaper overall cost for the department/budget over the long haul. Everybody says the turbo V6 from the SHO would be more expensive to maintain, but is there any data to back that up?

I think it is mostly an assumption, Generaly speaking, more things can go wrong with a F.I. engine vs N.A. Also IMHO supercharges are more reliable than Turbos and last longer. Cop cars are driven hard, (I am not saying the taurus wont last long , I dont want to piss off SYR74 ). A TTV6 AWD car is more complicated than a N.A. RWD car, Generaly speaking more complexed can = more expensive maintanice cost.

[esfkotaro]

Originally Posted by truth411

Also IMHO supercharges are more reliable than Turbos and last longer.

True, to a point. The latest generations of turbo's actually aren't as far behind superchargers in terms of reliability\maintainability as SC-fans would have you believe. TC's have come a long way lately in those respects. I'm a SC-guy myself, always preferred them for many reasons, reliability not the least amongst them, but I have to admit those turbos have come far as far as reliability is concerned.

As I skimmed the original article, I saw they were offering 2 configs, not just the Ecoboost. They're also offering the basic 3.5, for what I would consider to be more "routine" police work. Cruising\patrols\etc., the "true" Interceptors would be configured with the turbo powertrain for situations that actually require that kinda power. Most of the townships near me that have converted to the Charger, are running 9 V6's for every Hemi they have on the road.

That said, I think the Taurus looks...intimidating. The Caprice, not so much. But the Caprice interior looks much more intuitive. I hope the PD's demo each to find the one that's right for them.

My favorite local cop car is a fox body Cobra, built up and looking\sounding very, very intimidating indeed. lol.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Uhh ... I only made 1 of those posts

Anyway, I had it in my mind that he G8 GT and Charger RT started at 30k US, while the SHO was 40. Little off in both directions makes a big difference. Anyway, police gear adds a LOT of weight. I've heard that the Crown Vic gets something like 400 lbs worth of stuff added in the conversion to police duty, the electronics are one of the biggest culprits. The SHO comes in at a little under 4400 lbs to start with.

Profitability, Crown Vics cost next to nothing for Ford to build. The last update they had was 1998 and that was a refresh not a redesign. Fundamentally they haven't changed since they were introduced in 1992. All the engineering costs have been paid for years ago. Its no contest compared to the SHO about which one would have the better margins. I would guess that the main reason they're discontinuing the Crown Vic is because the equipment at the factory is probably at the end of its life.

Just as a tidbit of info, the Vocs gained hydroformed framewells and rack and pinion steering in 03 and there have been constant engine updates, last in 07 or 08 that brought it to 250 HP. But you are correct, the Vic is a major money maker being the preferred patrol car, can't beat a body on frame car for that, and sadly, she is the last of her breed. Did you know that CHP actually has a fram straightener specifically for the Crown Vics?

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by Stew

Just as a tidbit of info, the Vocs gained hydroformed framewells and rack and pinion steering in 03 and there have been constant engine updates, last in 07 or 08 that brought it to 250 HP. But you are correct, the Vic is a major money maker being the preferred patrol car, can't beat a body on frame car for that, and sadly, she is the last of her breed. Did you know that CHP actually has a fram straightener specifically for the Crown Vics?

Alot of cops HATE Crown Vic's mostly because they dont like their cars exploding if they're rear ended.

Here in Oregon the OSP uses Hemi Chargers and Vics's. Almost without fail all the OSP troopers prefer the Hemi Chargers.