Ford's Answer to the Caprice: Taurus Police Interceptor

[Stew]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

There is strong potential for it being sold to the public at a later date

I really hope, wasn't it like one of the last CEOs that are no longer there that was really against it?

[DGthe3]

There wasn't much opposition to a Caprice, at least not this Caprice. Re-badging the G8 as a Chevy did have some strong opposition. In the days after bankruptcy, they canned the idea because of the bad reputation for badge engineering. This Caprice is bigger and there is a stronger business case for selling it to police than to consumers, its also quicker to bring them to market this way.

[camarowa]

Originally Posted by 2010 SSRS

looks better than the Mustang

Just picked up the Motor Trend April issue, the '11 mustang is hideous.

[SLOWHITE]

That Taurus will be what Ford is offering because they will/have stopped making the good ole Crown Vic.

[2000v6]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

There is strong potential for it being sold to the public at a later date

The whole caprice thing is the stupidest s*** that GM has done in a while. They already have a very capable car (the G8), all they need to do is just put them into production as cop/government agency cars, and not offer them to the public. Problem solved.

As for the taurus, I don't see it being used as a cop car. The mustang should just be offered to cops with a special police package. It's what a lot of police department's buy anyway.

But honestly, I don't see police forces or government agencies buying either of these. Most of the new sales will go towards the carbon e7, the car that was specifically created for police officers.

[brandotron]

Reminds me of the Taurus police cars in Robocop.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2000v6

The whole caprice thing is the stupidest s*** that GM has done in a while. They already have a very capable car (the G8), all they need to do is just put them into production as cop/government agency cars, and not offer them to the public. Problem solved.

As for the taurus, I don't see it being used as a cop car. The mustang should just be offered to cops with a special police package. It's what a lot of police department's buy anyway.

But honestly, I don't see police forces or government agencies buying either of these. Most of the new sales will go towards the carbon e7, the car that was specifically created for police officers.

The G8 isn't as big as the Caprice, and size matters with police cars. Also, offering the Caprice as a police car opens the door to offer it to the public as well. That couldn't be done with the G8 since Pontiac was going to die.

The I don't know if you've noticed, but the Mustang lacks 2 very important features of a patrol car: a passenger side rear door and drivers side rear door.

[ssjoe]

The Ford Taurus would not be a good cop car for more then one reason. First the interior room would be horrible, second the maintence cost would be too much for a twin v-6 turbo, and third the cage/barrier inside would make it almost impossible for a prisoner to fit in the back seat. You can barely fit someone back there right now! Ford should have stayed with the CVPI because we use them and so do taxi cab companies.

Dodge is phasing out their Charger Police package.

The new Caprice coming out should dominate the market because the interior room is supposed to be more then the current CVPI and they are also going to make the shift lever on the column according to my Police Fleet magazines.

I for one am glad Chevy is getting back into the Police market with a practicle Police cruiser for patrol.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by coolman

That's a very good point ,but cops also want power along with gas mileage and the taurus has that. I think they would look at the awd as a big advantage that far out weighs the maintenance issues of it. Now the twin-turbo I can see where your coming from ,but chevy, and dodge would have to do something similar to get the same power with the same type of gas mileage. I guess time will tell.

You make it sound as if the caprice would not have equal fuel economy Because it is a V8? The SHO weighs almost 4400lbs and is rated at 17/25 mpg. Looking at the steel wheels and probaly some beefed up suspension it may weigh almost 4500lbs (way too much IMO).

[Stew]

Originally Posted by ssjoe

The Ford Taurus would not be a good cop car for more then one reason. First the interior room would be horrible, second the maintence cost would be too much for a twin v-6 turbo, and third the cage/barrier inside would make it almost impossible for a prisoner to fit in the back seat. You can barely fit someone back there right now! Ford should have stayed with the CVPI because we use them and so do taxi cab companies.

Dodge is phasing out their Charger Police package.

The new Caprice coming out should dominate the market because the interior room is supposed to be more then the current CVPI and they are also going to make the shift lever on the column according to my Police Fleet magazines.

I for one am glad Chevy is getting back into the Police market with a practicle Police cruiser for patrol.

Where is the world did this info come from? The Taurus is a large car and if I am not mistaken, quite a bit larger inside than the Current Vic, so that is a moot point. Also, first I have heard of Dodge phasing out the Charger police package, especially considering their share is growing for now.

[Number 3]

Well it will be interesting because the Caprice PPV will come with a V6 and V8. For the Ford to be competitive with the V8 PPV, they have to offer a SHO as a pursuit vehicle. Well they have 2 problems................either a) they sell the police a $40,000 SHO or sell it at a discount to the police and PO all the people paying the big bucks for the SHO.

So we shall see how this plays out..............but I think I know who wins.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And it will be about 10 grand more than a similar Caprice or Charger although that represents a lot less of the overall price because of all the added equipment. Ford needs something to replace the Crown Vic, but they won't have nearly the volume with this that they are used to.

I'm honestly curious to see you're reasoning here since I am not seeing this at all.

A Ford Taurus SHO starts just under 38k. In the transition to EB powered Interceptor status you logically start with taking into consideration the fact that the Taurus SHO is loaded to the gills with tech and luxury features even in standard trim. The aluminum trim, the ambient lighting, the 10 way power driver and passenger seats in leather, the HID projector lamps, SYNC, the premium sound system, push button start, the rear camera, the heated mirrors, the 19" alloy wheels.....Interceptor doesn't need to, and almost certainly wont, come standard with any of that and that is just a quick snapshot of what the car will be missing compared to a standard SHO. To put this into perspective, the price jump from a base Taurus SE model to a Limited model is 6500 dollars and the only difference between those two cars are luxury and tech features like the ones mentioned above. Throw in the fact that Interceptor are going to have a lot fewer options combinations and cost should get even lower.

The Caprice gets a bit trickier. A base Pontiac G8, which is the only decent reference point we have for the Caprice , started at just under 32k and to be blunt didn't have nearly as many features standard as the Taurus does, which means there is a lot less to be gained here by taking stuff off of the car. (can't take off things that aren't standard to begin with) Factor in the reality that the exchange rate has shifted in a manner not in favor of importing from Australia since the G8 was initially offered, and the fact that the Caprice is actually a rehashed Statesman which is a more expensive basic platform than the Commodore is, and I'm not seeing where the inherent price advantage is going to be coming from here.

Even worse, the buzz has always indicated that G8 was basically bargain priced from the outset in an attempt to build interest. We don't have any hard evidence of the same for obvious reasons, not company is inclined to come out and say 'we screwed up'. Still, Zeta does always seem to be the program that gets cut the quickest and the hardest when the difficult decisions have to be made at GM, and since the epa explanation Lutz gave is obviously hogwash we end up in a situation where the whole 'Zeta is not a cheap platform' theory gains some traction.

Ultimately my point is that we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Caprice is a cheap proposition. In fact, I would be impressed if GM can offer this car for the same base price as a Pontiac G8 GT and expect to make any money at all.

That said, I agree that Ford wont have the volume with the Taurus they did with the Crown Vic based Interceptor, but I don't think matching that cars volume is the goal and I'm willing to bet the Taurus based Interceptor would be profitable at a much lower take rate than is the CV based piece they are producing now.

Originally Posted by Truth411

You make it sound as if the caprice would not have equal fuel economy Because it is a V8? The SHO weighs almost 4400lbs and is rated at 17/25 mpg. Looking at the steel wheels and probaly some beefed up suspension it may weigh almost 4500lbs (way too much IMO).

Interceptor is virtually assured to weigh less than the SHO. Yes, the Interceptor uses steel wheels and has a unique front subframe, but the sheer mass of luxury and tech removed from the car for cruiser duty is going to be worth a few hundred pounds easily. I would take a lot of front subframe and some seriously heavy wheels to offset what this car is losing in terms of luxury items.

Originally Posted by Fenwick

Ford just handed the police car market to Chevy. Maintenance costs for the Caprice will most likely be much less than maintaining an AWD, twin-turbocharged Taurus.

Possibly, but is that going to offset the higher cost of entry the Caprice is going to have to muster to be as profitable? If there is a company with an inherent advantage here it's Dodge, not GM. And even they have some issues to overcome since the first gen Charger was not exactly a durability standout.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by syr74

I'm honestly curious to see you're reasoning here since I am not seeing this at all.

A Ford Taurus SHO starts just under 38k. In the transition to EB powered Interceptor status you logically start with taking into consideration the fact that the Taurus SHO is loaded to the gills with tech and luxury features even in standard trim. The aluminum trim, the ambient lighting, the 10 way power driver and passenger seats in leather, the HID projector lamps, SYNC, the premium sound system, push button start, the rear camera, the heated mirrors, the 19" alloy wheels.....Interceptor doesn't need to, and almost certainly wont, come standard with any of that and that is just a quick snapshot of what the car will be missing compared to a standard SHO. To put this into perspective, the price jump from a base Taurus SE model to a Limited model is 6500 dollars and the only difference between those two cars are luxury and tech features like the ones mentioned above. Throw in the fact that Interceptor are going to have a lot fewer options combinations and cost should get even lower.

The Caprice gets a bit trickier. A base Pontiac G8, which is the only decent reference point we have for the Caprice , started at just under 32k and to be blunt didn't have nearly as many features standard as the Taurus does, which means there is a lot less to be gained here by taking stuff off of the car. (can't take off things that aren't standard to begin with) Factor in the reality that the exchange rate has shifted in a manner not in favor of importing from Australia since the G8 was initially offered, and the fact that the Caprice is actually a rehashed Statesman which is a more expensive basic platform than the Commodore is, and I'm not seeing where the inherent price advantage is going to be coming from here.

Even worse, the buzz has always indicated that G8 was basically bargain priced from the outset in an attempt to build interest. We don't have any hard evidence of the same for obvious reasons, not company is inclined to come out and say 'we screwed up'. Still, Zeta does always seem to be the program that gets cut the quickest and the hardest when the difficult decisions have to be made at GM, and since the epa explanation Lutz gave is obviously hogwash we end up in a situation where the whole 'Zeta is not a cheap platform' theory gains some traction.

Ultimately my point is that we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Caprice is a cheap proposition. In fact, I would be impressed if GM can offer this car for the same base price as a Pontiac G8 GT and expect to make any money at all.

That said, I agree that Ford wont have the volume with the Taurus they did with the Crown Vic based Interceptor, but I don't think matching that cars volume is the goal and I'm willing to bet the Taurus based Interceptor would be profitable at a much lower take rate than is the CV based piece they are producing now.



Interceptor is virtually assured to weigh less than the SHO. Yes, the Interceptor uses steel wheels and has a unique front subframe, but the sheer mass of luxury and tech removed from the car for cruiser duty is going to be worth a few hundred pounds easily. I would take a lot of front subframe and some seriously heavy wheels to offset what this car is losing in terms of luxury items.



Possibly, but is that going to offset the higher cost of entry the Caprice is going to have to muster to be as profitable? If there is a company with an inherent advantage here it's Dodge, not GM. And even they have some issues to overcome since the first gen Charger was not exactly a durability standout.

Uhh ... I only made 1 of those posts

Anyway, I had it in my mind that he G8 GT and Charger RT started at 30k US, while the SHO was 40. Little off in both directions makes a big difference. Anyway, police gear adds a LOT of weight. I've heard that the Crown Vic gets something like 400 lbs worth of stuff added in the conversion to police duty, the electronics are one of the biggest culprits. The SHO comes in at a little under 4400 lbs to start with.

Profitability, Crown Vics cost next to nothing for Ford to build. The last update they had was 1998 and that was a refresh not a redesign. Fundamentally they haven't changed since they were introduced in 1992. All the engineering costs have been paid for years ago. Its no contest compared to the SHO about which one would have the better margins. I would guess that the main reason they're discontinuing the Crown Vic is because the equipment at the factory is probably at the end of its life.

[streetshark]

Twin-turbo and AWD? Not gonna happen, cost and maintenance will scare the hell out of administration. Plus I would have to see the inside dimensions. Dodge has the market in the palm of it's hand with the hemi Charger and will continue in the market after they discontinue the Charger. CV is top seller now but I think Ford is making a BIG mistake with the Taurus. Oh, and the new Caprice sounds like it will rock. This coming from a guy with a hemi Charger for a "company car".