2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[Number 3]

If nothing else, the Hellcat will be a monument. It certainly does not bode well if anyone thinks this is starting a HP war between the big two and Fiat. If it does it will be in cars that most will either not be able to afford or at that price point will simply go by an Mercedes AMG or an Audi RS or a BMW M.

707 HP on the street is absolutely ridiculous. For most it will be just a tire roaster.

There will be some that will actually buy it and go to the drag strip for sure and they will, I predict, enjoy the s%^&*t out of that car.

IMO and may be for me only, it doesn't make me want one in the least. But I am very glad it will exist.

The only shot Camaro lovers will have is the LT4 in a car a few hundred pounds less than today's ZL1. That would give you 50 HP less and 600 pounds less car to move compared to the Challenger. And you'd have a car that you could track as well.

I will be very curious as to what tires can be fitted on the back of an Alpha based Camaro. May not be the big fat wide things we see today. But obviously we won't know that for at least 2 years or more.

I think we will see the LT4 in the Cadillac CTS-V long before a Camaro. We've at least seen spy photos of that car along with an ATS-V. But I will suggest that as GM has copied BMW to penny it seems on pricing you are looking at a $65,000 ATS-V with the 3.6TT and a $90,000 CTS-V with the LT4. As we haven't seen a camouflaged Camaro in spy photos yet it's safe to say (unless GM is cleverly hiding development properties) we are at least 18 months from a Gen6, another 6 months to a convertible and another 6 months to an LT4 powered car. That is following the C7 model which is far more aggressive than what GM did with the Gen5 Camaro.

Proud for Fiat to have this to hang on their mantle.

Price will be interesting, though. I don't even have a guess. But I would think "a lot" would be in the ball park.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

DCT transmission helps immensely. My stock 13 M5 smokes my stock ZL1 in a straight line. My findings lead me to the A6 crap tranny.

Interesting that it smokes it. ZL1 A6's hold the top 6 fastest stock times on Camaro5 vs their manual counterparts. The manual M5 and manual ZL1 seem pretty even from reviews, yet no one seems to test the automatic ZL1 anywhere. Have you lined them up with equal drivers? What were ET's and traps respectively?

Road&Track
M5 MT: 0-60 4.1sec; 12.3 @ 116.7mph
M5 DCT: 0-60 3.6sec; 11.9 @ 119.7mph
ZL1 M6: 0-60 3.9sec; 12.1 @ 119.9mph

Car&Driver:
M5 MT: 0-60 4.0sec; 12.1 @ 120.0mph
M5 DCT: 0-60 3.7sec; 12.0 @ 122.0mph
ZL1 M6: 0-60 4.1sec; 12.3 @ 119mph

MotorTrend:
M5 MT: 0-60 4.2sec; 12.5 @ 116.6mph
M5 DCT: 0-60 4.0sec; 12.4 @ 114.2mph
ZL1 M6: 0-60 3.8sec; 12.1 @ 117.4mph

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 4VFTW

+1000 so many people spouting off about Ring times when 99.3% of people couldn't push a 2000 Civic DX to its limits on a road course without ending up in a ditch. here in Florida the only racing you can do that involves a turn is racing on a expressway on/off ramp....never have seen a pass made there either

So you guys are saying a road course takes skill not many have but anyone can steer straight for a 1/4 mile?

I'm not sure there are many people I would trust to bang a 707 HP Hellcat down a drag strip either.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

The denial in here us strong.

707 horsepower and some of you are bitching about how ****ing cute it looks on a road course that 7.9 people will take it to.

I think you're thrown off by the critical and anylitical approach of most members of this site.

Go to the following link and look at the information that is given. "Unlock Handling" and your told again about the most powerful engine backed by Viper transmission with bigger front brakes. The last 5 seconds then say tuning to the hydraulic steering, bigger sway bars and stiff but comfy springs.

Shows 20" rims but deliberately avoids mentioning the width. "Spent 35% more time in the wind tunnel". than what??? On and on...

It reminds me of a Politician "dodging" and weaving to avoid saying anything. Combine that with rumored 10.9 sec passes that no one can find the origin of and I'm skeptical.

I hope the Hellcat rips the muscle car world a new one so GM gives us a balanced 700 HP ZL1 in the next gen. I, like many, will wait until the press test this car before handing it the crown as its possible that it won't be the quickest or best handling car in this class.

http://www.drivesrt.com/2015/challenger-srt-hellcat/

[4VFTW]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So you guys are saying a road course takes skill not many have but anyone can steer straight for a 1/4 mile?

absolutely a road course requires more skill. It is also far more expensive and not many people who do it will truly push the car to its limit because when they screw up a visit to the body shop is likely so you keep it under a certain threshold... its balls out at the Dragstrip or stay home.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Number 3

But I will suggest that as GM has copied BMW to penny it seems on pricing you are looking at a $65,000 ATS-V with the 3.6TT and a $90,000 CTS-V with the LT4.

Not sure I follow you here.

ATS
2.5L $33,990
2.0L $36,020
3.6L $42,020
ATS-V: $65,000??

Seems like a huge jump, especially considering the M3 is $65,000. I would estimate $55,000 - $60,000 for the ATS-V while offering considerably more standard features than the M3.

V1 MSRP $49,995
V2 MSRP $59,995
V3 MSRP $90,000??

I think $70,000 - $75,000 would be a reasonable estimate.

[McRat]

Originally Posted by 4VFTW

+1000 so many people spouting off about Ring times when 99.3% of people couldn't push a 2000 Civic DX to its limits on a road course without ending up in a ditch. here in Florida the only racing you can do that involves a turn is racing on a expressway on/off ramp....never have seen a pass made there either

Handling is something that everybody wants.

Don't think so? Actually drive a 60's car on the street and get back with me. My last one was a '68 327 Elky. Loved that car, but when a warning sign said 40mph corner, I'd go 30. And I left a LOT of following distance in traffic.

That being said, all that is expected of the Hellcat is safe handling. Nobody is buying a boat for roadracing.

The current Camaro offerings, all of them, are competent corner carvers. Dodge is so far out of the loop in this area as to be laughable.

But seriously, nobody is expecting a 2015 Challenger to keep up with a base 2010 V6 Camaro in the twisties. At least nobody I know.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Not sure I follow you here.

ATS
2.5L $33,990
2.0L $36,020
3.6L $42,020
ATS-V: $65,000??

Seems like a huge jump, especially considering the M3 is $65,000. I would estimate $55,000 - $60,000 for the ATS-V while offering considerably more standard features than the M3.

V1 MSRP $49,995
V2 MSRP $59,995
V3 MSRP $90,000??

I think $70,000 - $75,000 would be a reasonable estimate.

You missed my point. GM is parroting the BMW pricing strategies.

If you look at the CTS V-sport with the 3.6 TT that is a low 60's pricepoint. Now put that in an ATS with the higher performance chassis, brakes etc. and you are going to be low (hopefully) to mid 60's.

As for the CTS-V, take the V-sport loaded and you have a $71,000 car today. Now add the LT4 and performance equipment and you are at $90,000 easily. I just don't see GM pricing the CTS-V with any overlap with a CTS V-sport. The V today is fully loaded and I expect the future car to be as well.

The ATS-V will take the 2013 and earlier CTS-V price point and the CTS-V will go above and beyond that.

The prices you have are nearly base. You can easily option an ATS to well over $50,000 (just price one out over $56,000 before the $3,000 rebate) and a CTS goes well above $59,995 optioned up (just priced one at $66,000 before incentives).

Your pricing is more hopeful....................and as usual I hope you are right. I just don't see it happening.

[McRat]

The current gen of CTS-V already has a supercharged V8, heavy duty trans and axle, and massive brakes.

It's pretty well loaded from the factory except bling. It is $63,600.

Unless they go CCB and titanium internals with dry sump, it's not going to hit $90 base.

The CTS-V is a luxury performance car, not a sportscar.

If the next gen of the CTS-V is $90k, then the ZL1 or it's replacement will be over $80k. Unless GM changes it's strategy, a ZL1 will be pretty much a sport version of the CTS-V.

[kinpin]

Originally Posted by BPG

Wow. 7th thread on this in 24 hours.


Kinpin, have you pondered how the hellcat closes their hood?

Ha Ha your funny .... are you trying to over compensate for something ?

[2doorrocket]

Reading most of these comments you guys are so dramatic. Lol... It will handle just fine, personally I prefer the feel of my SRT's to the ZL1. While the ZL1 is a beast of a car, and props to GM. Unless you guys want to sit in denial, the interior sucks.

My experience spending some serious track time with the ZL1 and the SRT. The SRT's handle just fine. I'll let you guys know what I think after I get my chance to drive the hellcat on the 23rd.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You missed my point. GM is parroting the BMW pricing strategies.

We're just looking at it differently. Cadillac doesn't offer bare-bones, stripped out base cars then charge thousands for things like keyless entry and other features most manufacturers offer at no cost. If by parroting you mean Cadillac charges more for their performance models than non-performance models, then I ask, who doesn't?

Originally Posted by Number 3

If you look at the CTS V-sport with the 3.6 TT that is a low 60's pricepoint. Now put that in an ATS with the higher performance chassis, brakes etc. and you are going to be low (hopefully) to mid 60's.

The CTS Vsport starts at $59,995. The CTS is also one class size larger than the ATS and costs $10,000 more than the ATS equipped with the same engine. So add extra for the bigger brakes, suspension for the V model then subtract $10,000 for the size difference and you arrive at my $55,000 - $60,000 estimate.

Originally Posted by Number 3

As for the CTS-V, take the V-sport loaded and you have a $71,000 car today. Now add the LT4 and performance equipment and you are at $90,000 easily. I just don't see GM pricing the CTS-V with any overlap with a CTS V-sport. The V today is fully loaded and I expect the future car to be as well.

That's the thing, I don't HAVE to buy a fully loaded Vsport. The BMW 550 and M5 pricing overlaps, as does the E550 and E63 AMG, and the A6 and S6, all depending on options. Which is why I am only speaking in terms of base price. The V isn't fully loaded. Heck, mine had $10,000 in options over the base price.

Originally Posted by Number 3

The prices you have are nearly base. You can easily option an ATS to well over $50,000 (just price one out over $56,000 before the $3,000 rebate) and a CTS goes well above $59,995 optioned up (just priced one at $66,000 before incentives).

I just don't understand your obsession with options. I am comparing base prices to base prices. There are way too many variables once you throw options into the equation. You may want them, I may not. Then factor in incentives and actual transaction prices of which Cadillac is considerably lower than competitors as a % under MSRP.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by 2doorrocket

Reading most of these comments you guys are so dramatic. Lol... It will handle just fine, personally I prefer the feel of my SRT's to the ZL1.

Yes, and BarcaLounger's sit just fine too. "Feel" is highly subjective.

Originally Posted by 2doorrocket

While the ZL1 is a beast of a car, and props to GM. Unless you guys want to sit in denial, the interior sucks.

Yes, that's why people buy pony cars, for the kickin' interiors.

Originally Posted by 2doorrocket

My experience spending some serious track time with the ZL1 and the SRT. The SRT's handle just fine. I'll let you guys know what I think after I get my chance to drive the hellcat on the 23rd.

Please explain to me how a $37,000 bone stock Camaro can be 8 seconds faster around VIR than Dodge's current top of the line, $48,000 Challenger SRT8, and you qualify this as "handling just fine"? At least the interior was AWESOME.

[4VFTW]

Originally Posted by McRat

Handling is something that everybody wants.

Don't think so? Actually drive a 60's car on the street and get back with me. My last one was a '68 327 Elky. Loved that car, but when a warning sign said 40mph corner, I'd go 30. And I left a LOT of following distance in traffic.

That being said, all that is expected of the Hellcat is safe handling. Nobody is buying a boat for roadracing.

I've never driven a new Challenger or Charger but i'm positive they are lightyears ahead of '60's era muscle in terms of braking and handling

...internet says 60-0 in 117' and .93 skidpad for a SRT 392