Expert?!?!?!? Michael Moore?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[stovt001]

Thanks Mikey. Now I think your next film should be shot using one of those old hand-cranked cameras to save on energy and it should last only 5 minutes and be shown once a day in theaters so that theaters can save energy. See, I can do it to.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by AngryAmish

i find alot of irony in this comment.

i mean, look at the guy. he is ALL about consumption. he probably emits more greenhouse gases from his ass then my 2k impala does in a year.

dont get me wrong, i consider myself a proud treehugger, but this guy irks me as much rush limbaugh. all people from both sides of the extreme irk me. they make the all of us reasonable people look like idiots to the rest of the world.

of course we should look into alternatives, and we are last time i checked. volt anyone?
and the last thing i want having a hand in the automotive industry is the government. they cant run the country right let alone a competitive business.

Amen. Why does it seem that the most out-there environmental-wakos and anti-consumptionists are overweight? Weird.

[DGthe3]

Moores plan won't work. There isn't enough demand for buses and trains to save all the jobs. And someone should point out to him that Chrysler builds more electric vehicles than anyone, and GM has more hybrid models than any other automaker. All 3 have built a large number of alternative fuel (E85) vehicles.

[rmyers]

Yet another example where someone who has no credibility on the subject is given airtime and presented as an expert. As I stated in another post, the Big 3 need to grow a set of balls and tell the government and the tree huggers, to shut the heck up and let us build the cars people will buy.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by rmyers

Yet another example where someone who has no credibility on the subject is given airtime and presented as an expert. As I stated in another post, the Big 3 need to grow a set of balls and tell the government and the tree huggers, to shut the heck up and let us build the cars people will buy.

thats why we are in the situation we are in now. just a few years ago leading up to this summer, everyone HAD to have the biggest SUV or truck that they could get their hands on. fuel economy be damned, so the big 3 gave the people what they wanted. we've been getting 20+mpg in cars for over a decade now, and its just now starting to move to the 30mpg range, shoulda been there a long time ago.

[Bumble Bee '77]

I'm paraphrasing here, but I read in Scientific American, (yes I read nerd mags too), that the total COMBINED C02 emissions from humans, (breathing, cars, industries, ect) is less then 4%. Plants, animals, volcano's emit far more c02 per year then humans do in 10.

And I personally don't think the Gov should mandate anything regarding Autos. Everyone that bought a Prius thought they were helping to save the world, gimme a break. It cost more in energy consumption to build the stupid car then it will ever save.

Besides does anyone want this to happen...


It's in the way you dress. The way you boogie down. The way you sign your unemployment check. You're a man who likes to do things your own way. And on those special Saturdays when driving is permitted, you want it in your car. It's that special feeling of a zero-emissions wind at your back and a road ahead meandering with possibilities. The kind of feeling you get behind the wheel of the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition from Congressional Motors.
All new for 2012, the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition is the mandatory American car so advanced it took $100 billion and an entire Congress to design it. We started with the same reliable 7-way hybrid ethanol-biodeisel-electric-clean coal-wind-solar-pedal power plant behind the base model Pelosi, but packed it with extra oomph and the sassy styling pizazz that tells the world that 1974 Detroit is back again -- with a vengeance.
We've subsidized the features you want and taxed away the rest. With its advanced Al Gore-designed V-3 under the hood pumping out 22.5 thumping, carbon-neutral ponies of Detroit muscle, you'll never be late for the Disco or the Day Labor Shelter. Engage the pedal drive or strap on the optional jumbo mizzenmast, and the GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition easily exceeds 2016 CAFE mileage standards. At an estimated 68 MPG, that's a savings of nearly $18.00 per month in fuel cost over the 2011 Pelosi.
Even with increased performance we didn't skimp on safety. With 11-point passenger racing harnesses, 15-way airbags, and mandatory hockey helmet, you'll have the security knowing that you could survive a 45 MPH collision even if the GTxi SS/Rt were capable of that kind of illegal speed.
But the changes don't stop there. Sporty mag-style aluminum-foil hubcaps and an all-new aggressive wedge shape designed by CM's Chief Stylist Harry Reid slices through the wind like an omnibus spending bill. It even features an airtight undercarriage to keep you and a passenger afloat up to 15 minutes when in puddles -- even in the choppy waters of a Cape Cod inlet. Available in a rainbow of bright color choices to match any wardrobe, from Mexican Avocado to French Mustard.
Inside, a luxurious Navy-boat gray, all-velour Barney Frank designed interior features thoughtful appointments like dashboard condom and baby oil dispenser and detachable vibrating shift knob. A special high capacity hatchback holds up to 300 aluminum cans, meaning fewer trips to the redemption center. And the standard 3 speaker Fairness ActoPhonic FM low-band sound system bellows the latest hits from the NPR when you insert your government-issued instant tax credit card.
Best of all, the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt is made right here in the U.S.A. by fully card-checked unionized workers and Detroit's famous visionary jet-set managers. Even if you don't own one, you can enjoy the patriotic satisfaction knowing you're supporting extravagant wages, enormous benefits, private jets, and lavish political donations that once again make the American car industry the envy (laughing-stock) of the world.

But why not buy one anyway? With an MSRP starting at only $62,999.99, it's affordable too. Don't forget to ask about dealer incentives, rebates, tax credits, and wealth redistribution plans for customers from dozens of qualifying special interest groups. Plus easy-pay financing programs from Fanny Mae.
So take the bus to your local CM dealer today and find out why the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition is the only car endorsed by President Barack Obama. One test drive will convince you that you'd choose it over the import brands. Even if they were still legal.

[rmyers]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

thats why we are in the situation we are in now. just a few years ago leading up to this summer, everyone HAD to have the biggest SUV or truck that they could get their hands on. fuel economy be damned, so the big 3 gave the people what they wanted. we've been getting 20+mpg in cars for over a decade now, and its just now starting to move to the 30mpg range, shoulda been there a long time ago.

By "the situation we are in now" are you referring to gas being under $2 per gallon? The gas prices in the summer were largely a result of speculators forcing the price up, and China buying up more than they needed. All the experts predicted after the Olympics were over, the prices would start coming down. Heck I'm not an expert and I predicted to my family gasoline would be under $2 before Christmas and I was right. If on the other hand you meant the situation the automakers are in, well trucks and suv's were the most profitable items they had. That is exactly why they should build them.

On another note, I woulld like to know if anyone has done a study that reflects average distances traveled by automobile for Americans compared to the rest of the world. I am not talking about commuting to work only. When you consider the fact that some of our states are larger than some countries, and that we can freely travel in and out of those states with complete anonimity, I am sure that has a lot to do with the types of cars the American market requires.

The important part is that car companies should be free to build whatever the market demands. And if that market demands SUV's then they should be building them. The companies should not be pressured into spending money on cars that no one wants just because it seems politically correct.

I'll go even futher by questioning the practicality of buying a hybrid or any other emerging technology when the price required would not be recooperated based on gasoline savings, unless you keep the vehicle several more years then the average car owner keeps a car. With gas prices under $2 per gallon, their ROI won't be realized now for twice as long.

When the hybrids are priced comparatively, then they will sell and the market will accept them.

For the time being, I'll keep driving my gas guzzling 505 hp LS7..Oh did I mention this old-technology easily gets 26 mpg on the highway!

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Bumble Bee '77

I'm paraphrasing here, but I read in Scientific American, (yes I read nerd mags too), that the total COMBINED C02 emissions from humans, (breathing, cars, industries, ect) is less then 4%. Plants, animals, volcano's emit far more c02 per year then humans do in 10.

And I personally don't think the Gov should mandate anything regarding Autos. Everyone that bought a Prius thought they were helping to save the world, gimme a break. It cost more in energy consumption to build the stupid car then it will ever save.

Besides does anyone want this to happen...


It's in the way you dress. The way you boogie down. The way you sign your unemployment check. You're a man who likes to do things your own way. And on those special Saturdays when driving is permitted, you want it in your car. It's that special feeling of a zero-emissions wind at your back and a road ahead meandering with possibilities. The kind of feeling you get behind the wheel of the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition from Congressional Motors.
All new for 2012, the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition is the mandatory American car so advanced it took $100 billion and an entire Congress to design it. We started with the same reliable 7-way hybrid ethanol-biodeisel-electric-clean coal-wind-solar-pedal power plant behind the base model Pelosi, but packed it with extra oomph and the sassy styling pizazz that tells the world that 1974 Detroit is back again -- with a vengeance.
We've subsidized the features you want and taxed away the rest. With its advanced Al Gore-designed V-3 under the hood pumping out 22.5 thumping, carbon-neutral ponies of Detroit muscle, you'll never be late for the Disco or the Day Labor Shelter. Engage the pedal drive or strap on the optional jumbo mizzenmast, and the GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition easily exceeds 2016 CAFE mileage standards. At an estimated 68 MPG, that's a savings of nearly $18.00 per month in fuel cost over the 2011 Pelosi.
Even with increased performance we didn't skimp on safety. With 11-point passenger racing harnesses, 15-way airbags, and mandatory hockey helmet, you'll have the security knowing that you could survive a 45 MPH collision even if the GTxi SS/Rt were capable of that kind of illegal speed.
But the changes don't stop there. Sporty mag-style aluminum-foil hubcaps and an all-new aggressive wedge shape designed by CM's Chief Stylist Harry Reid slices through the wind like an omnibus spending bill. It even features an airtight undercarriage to keep you and a passenger afloat up to 15 minutes when in puddles -- even in the choppy waters of a Cape Cod inlet. Available in a rainbow of bright color choices to match any wardrobe, from Mexican Avocado to French Mustard.
Inside, a luxurious Navy-boat gray, all-velour Barney Frank designed interior features thoughtful appointments like dashboard condom and baby oil dispenser and detachable vibrating shift knob. A special high capacity hatchback holds up to 300 aluminum cans, meaning fewer trips to the redemption center. And the standard 3 speaker Fairness ActoPhonic FM low-band sound system bellows the latest hits from the NPR when you insert your government-issued instant tax credit card.
Best of all, the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt is made right here in the U.S.A. by fully card-checked unionized workers and Detroit's famous visionary jet-set managers. Even if you don't own one, you can enjoy the patriotic satisfaction knowing you're supporting extravagant wages, enormous benefits, private jets, and lavish political donations that once again make the American car industry the envy (laughing-stock) of the world.

But why not buy one anyway? With an MSRP starting at only $62,999.99, it's affordable too. Don't forget to ask about dealer incentives, rebates, tax credits, and wealth redistribution plans for customers from dozens of qualifying special interest groups. Plus easy-pay financing programs from Fanny Mae.
So take the bus to your local CM dealer today and find out why the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition is the only car endorsed by President Barack Obama. One test drive will convince you that you'd choose it over the import brands. Even if they were still legal.

I can't stop laughing!

[MerF]

Originally Posted by Bumble Bee '77

...
All new for 2012, the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition is the mandatory American car so advanced it took $100 billion and an entire Congress to design it....

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Bumble Bee '77

I'm paraphrasing here, but I read in Scientific American, (yes I read nerd mags too), that the total COMBINED C02 emissions from humans, (breathing, cars, industries, ect) is less then 4%. Plants, animals, volcano's emit far more c02 per year then humans do in 10.

while i read a similar article (probably the same one), its not just C02 that we need to look at.

global warming is not... IS NOT..... IS NOT a human creation by itself. its part of a cycle that the earth goes through, heating, then cooling, then heating again, then cooling.
however, we are adding to it. the earth is constantly warming right now, we are reaching a climax point where we will dip back into a cold age. its going to happen. all we can do is try and slow down the rate at which its going to happen.

we are adding to the natural effect of the earth warming. we are increasing the rate at which the temperature is raising.

but since we arent seeing any immediate serious effects, no one really cares.

Originally Posted by rmyers

By "the situation we are in now" are you referring to gas being under $2 per gallon? The gas prices in the summer were largely a result of speculators forcing the price up, and China buying up more than they needed. All the experts predicted after the Olympics were over, the prices would start coming down. Heck I'm not an expert and I predicted to my family gasoline would be under $2 before Christmas and I was right.

gas prices will go back up. its only a matter of time.

If on the other hand you meant the situation the automakers are in, well trucks and suv's were the most profitable items they had. That is exactly why they should build them.
thats why they did build them.... in excess. look at the truck/suv market right now. gas prices are falling below $2.00 and dealerships STILL cant move trucks and suvs off their lots. hell, there's a dealership down in florida offering a buy one get one free for 2008 model pickups. and ur right, they have all the right in the world to build whatever vehicle they deem fit. but the problem comes in when the american public no longer wants a big truck/suv and now the auto manufacturers are stuck with profit loss, cus they built crap tones of the vehicles in the thought that people would still buy them, but then gas prices went up and everyone traded them in.



On another note, I woulld like to know if anyone has done a study that reflects average distances traveled by automobile for Americans compared to the rest of the world. I am not talking about commuting to work only. When you consider the fact that some of our states are larger than some countries, and that we can freely travel in and out of those states with complete anonimity, I am sure that has a lot to do with the types of cars the American market requires.

The important part is that car companies should be free to build whatever the market demands. And if that market demands SUV's then they should be building them. The companies should not be pressured into spending money on cars that no one wants just because it seems politically correct.

I'll go even futher by questioning the practicality of buying a hybrid or any other emerging technology when the price required would not be recooperated based on gasoline savings, unless you keep the vehicle several more years then the average car owner keeps a car. With gas prices under $2 per gallon, their ROI won't be realized now for twice as long.

When the hybrids are priced comparatively, then they will sell and the market will accept them.

For the time being, I'll keep driving my gas guzzling 505 hp LS7..Oh did I mention this old-technology easily gets 26 mpg on the highway!

thats awesome man. I was getting just shy of 30 in my 13 year old Z28 till I started moving away from the street and more to the track.



and I totally agree with you on the hybrid sales part. im not a big fan of hybrids to begin with. JMO, but the volt is about the only setup I really like, and thats not a biased remark for the brand name.

the volt uses electric motors to power the vehicle all the time, and only fires up the gas motor to recharge the batteries, which means that you can tune the gas motor to run at the most efficient rpm to add to the amount of fuel savings for it.

[dayvedayve]

Pop Quiz -- Why don't most people buy hybrids.

The upfront cost.

Takes too long to get the gas savings to equal out with higher purchase price.

Not to mention that the majority of people are skeptical of the "new" technology. They have not been aroung long enough to "comfort" many consumers into buying them.
They may be worth it or may not... Onlt time will tell.

So yes MM please have congress take over the Big 3 and force them to build cars that many Americans cannot afford nor want. That'll save the American Auto Industry. Oh yeah in the meantime let the competitors know in advance so they can use their government subsidies (from their respective country) to build regular gas burning autos for Americans to buy.

[Rogue Leader]

Wow I really started a shitstorm here. I appease those that have pointed out that noone is answering to MM's thoughts or actually believe this drivel here are my rebuttals:

Michael Moore, Oscar-winning documentary filmmaker (interviewed on CNN’s Larry King Live, Nov. 23)

I think what has to happen here is that Congress needs to pass some legislation, and our president-elect needs to do what [President Franklin] Roosevelt did.

When Roosevelt came in and when World War II faced the country, Roosevelt said to General Motors and Ford, 'You’re not going to build cars anymore. You’re going to build airplanes and tanks and guns and the things that we need for this war because we have a national crisis.' And so General Motors had to do what Roosevelt told them they had to do.

The same thing has to happen now.

Ok so you are comparing an economic issue to a WORLD WAR where people were dying left and right, and the German war machine (and the Japanese as well) were bent on TAKING OVER THE WORLD. If he didn't enact that power over those companies we faced Annihilation! I'm sorry but there is nothing else to say here because the situations cannot and should never be compared.

President-elect Obama has to say to them, yes, we’re going to use this [bailout] money to save these jobs. But we’re not going to build these gas-guzzling, unsafe vehicles any longer.

We’re going to put the companies into some sort of receivership and we, the government, are going to hold the reins on these companies. And they are to build mass transit. They’re to build hybrid cars. They’re to build cars that use little or no gasoline.

Hey buddy, the gov't dictating what companies do like that is called Communism, and a little country way bigger than this one tried it and it failed miserably (USSR). What he misses here is not everyone gives a shit about the environment, and not everyone wants a hybrid car. They need to build cars people want to buy, thats how a company makes money, and not everyone wants to buy your green car. We have a whole site here one of millions based on cars that wouldn't fall into his guidelines! That is MM's main problem he likes to force his ideals on everyone and he doesn't get that NOT everyone feels the same way he does or believes what he believes! And in counterpoint to his uneducated opinion, American vehicles are NOT gas guzzling or unsafe. However thats his opinion so it MUST be true and you MUST believe it. Thats how MM works.

And — I mean because we’re facing a national crisis — not just an economic crisis, but a crisis of the polar ice caps are melting. There’s only so much oil left under the Earth.

We’re going to run out of that, if not in our children’s time, our grandchildren’s time.

Prove it. He can't. And in reality we won't. There is so much oil under this earth it will be way past our grandchildren before we run out. However we are prevented from getting to it (such as the shale oil in this country alone) by the treehuggers like him who won't let a refinery be built anywhere where a Bald Eagle may on its trip from north to south see it out of the corner of its eye.

Oh and as mentioned here, the Polar ice caps are actually growing right now. Sorry, next!

There’s got to be a plan set up to find other ways to transport ourselves or other ways than using fossil fuels.

Taken out of context I actually agree with this quote. We absolutely should do that, there may be faster and cheaper ways to do it, and sure if they help the environment that would be great too.

In reality I kind of want a Volt, it just looks kind of cool, I like it for the Tech aspect, not the green aspect. Its a novelty to me, and it does show amazing technological progress which is awesome.

[Sterling]

I'd love to take my gas-guzzling, unsafe vehicle, and run him down with it.

[rmyers]

Warren Buffet offered a great idea. He says, the CEO's should have been asked to put together the best business/recovery plan they could think of, then if they were willing to risk 75% of their own net worth on the plan, (albeit with better than average returns if it works), then Congress should give them the money.