Expert?!?!?!? Michael Moore?!?!?!?!?!?!? - Page 3

kanakattack · 12-05-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

you dont have to be an "expert" per se to have an intelligent opinion about something.

this thread needs to be changed to "Michael Moore Bashing Thread"

did any of you "bashers" with nothing real to add besides "he's a ****** and a ******" ever think about......

what if he's right?

what if he's not the only person in the world with this opinion?, what if its been a proven fact that the polar caps are melting?, that the govt should step in and have some control over production of automobiles so that it is more focused on transportation and not just making the company money while screwing over the rest of the world?

Well said, Michael Moore is probably reflecting thoughts that many other Americans have. This is what freedom is about the right to think and say things that an cause debate. All that I have seen in this thread is attacks on the person and no real counterpoint to what was said. I do not agree with many things he has said but I try to express effective counterpoints to statements I do not agree with and not attack the person. I have seen many people bashed in this forum for not supporting American car manufactures by buying foreign automobiles, Michael Moore stated on CNN that he and his father supports the individuals working in manufacturing American cars and drives a Chrysler. So it seems by some that it is okay to cannibalize someone that supports the industry if his opinions are different from yours. His difference seems to be with the decision makers of those corporations, a opinion that have been supported by many others. This is a forum to give insight and discuss a very exciting new car, not to bash any individual that choses to voice his opinion, discuss yes, that is what forums are for.

zebra · 12-05-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Moore

And — I mean because we’re facing a national crisis — not just an economic crisis, but a crisis of the polar ice caps are melting.

that's why Al Gore said Florida was gonna drown. he also claims to have invented the Interweb

*CamaroSpike23* · 12-05-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra

that's why Al Gore said Florida was gonna drown. he also claims to have invented the Interweb

if the polar caps were to melt completely, florida and most every other costal location will be under water.

*GTAHVIT* · 12-05-2008, 09:41 PM

The polar caps aren't melting. They are now growing and have been for the last 3-5 years depending on the study you refer to.

My personal opinion of Mr. Moore aside...

What he says makes no sense. Government intervention is what has put the US auto industry in this position. It was the government that put CAFE in place, continues to increase the safety requirements, that punishes U.S. companies for selling overseas, that rewards foreign companies for selling in the U.S., That supported the UAW and pressured the auto industry to pay 3 times what the foreign competition pays in labor while letting foreign auto makers in the U. S. build cars with out union workers. Our Government that funds the publicity of global warming and refuses to report the natural cyclic state of the earths temperature. Fact: The warmest year on record was in the 1930's Not a very big carbon footprint then was there.

Our elected officials (insert party name here) are the ones perpetuating this problem on on the U.S. Auto industry. The same ones that are trying to bankrupt Social security, medicare, bail out banks, doubled gov spending. And we want them to have more say in what happens in this country???

When do we acknowledge that they've screwed it up. And when do we stop giving them more control to go and screw more up.

If you don't agree with bailing out the Auto industry then fine. But, don't be so quick to defend Mr. Moore, or the politicians trying to regulate the economy.

How can any of us give them more authority and power over anything given their past performance?

Every crisis we are facing at this time is because our government intervened when it should have let the experts do their job. When there is freedom in the market place, then let companies sink or swim. But when the Government's hands are just as bloody as everyone elses. Then they need to step up and give the appropriate measure of support.

You can't have it both ways. Mr. Moore's points are in my opinion going to give more influence to the same organization the got us here. That's why his opinion is stupid. In my humble opinion. Which very well may be even more stupid.

You decide.

And to be fair, None of the Mr. Moore supporters have justified why his opinons make sense. Repeating what others think or feel doesn't make a valid argument.

headpunter · 12-05-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

if the polar caps were to melt completely, florida and most every other costal location will be under water.

Ummm................When water freezes it gains volume.........not the other way around.....

*CamaroSpike23* · 12-05-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headpunter

Ummm................When water freezes it gains volume.........not the other way around.....

and ice floats

headpunter · 12-05-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

and ice floats

and most of it is still below the water's surface.....

even if it floats it is a net Loss in volume....

*CamaroSpike23* · 12-05-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headpunter

and most of it is still below the water's surface.....

even if it floats it is a net Loss in volume....

no shit that most is below the surface, but when you look at the ammount of ice stored in the polar caps, it is not a loss.

especially when you consider the fact that 80-90% of ice is underwater... and water does expand 9% of its size when it freezes.... then add that to the fact that frozen freshwater (which is what the polar cap is) is floating in SALTWATER which has a higher buoyancy than freshwater, means that a larger percentage of the ice is above water than normal.

so 9% expansion when it freezes.....
20% above water.......
when it melts, thats still 10+% extra water that has to go somewhere.

not to mention, we wouldn't even have to worry about the flooding, as if the northern cap were to melt, it would shut down the atlantic current which would trigger a massive freeze over

*GTAHVIT* · 12-05-2008, 10:04 PM

Sorry for the rant everyone.

Please stay on topic.

Is Mr. Moore's plan a sound one?

Thanks very much in advance.

*CamaroSpike23* · 12-05-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Sorry for the rant everyone.

Please stay on topic.

Is Mr. Moore's plan a sound one?

Thanks very much in advance.

lol

no its not.

there is yet to be one single plan that will fix america. and part of the reason for that is american consumerism. we have this innate urge to add up our personal belongings and have more than the guy next to us.

just imagine where we would be right now if the huge SUV market had never took off.

*CamaroSpike23* · 12-05-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

No doubt the polar caps are melting, but they didn't exist in the Jurassic period either when there was no humans.

how do you know that? are you not human? did you arrive to warn us that the earth is doomed?

lmao...

GrnMchin · 12-05-2008, 10:13 PM

^Science (people that are a lot smarter then ME), Human, No
Stay on topic

Kyle2k · 12-05-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtahvit

The polar caps aren't melting. They are now growing and have been for the last 3-5 years depending on the study you refer to.

My personal opinion of Mr. Moore aside...

What he says makes no sense. Government intervention is what has put the US auto industry in this position. It was the government that put CAFE in place, continues to increase the safety requirements, that punishes U.S. companies for selling overseas, that rewards foreign companies for selling in the U.S., That supported the UAW and pressured the auto industry to pay 3 times what the foreign competition pays in labor while letting foreign auto makers in the U. S. build cars with out union workers. Our Government that funds the publicity of global warming and refuses to report the natural cyclic state of the earths temperature. Fact: The warmest year on record was in the 1930's Not a very big carbon footprint then was there.

Our elected officials (insert party name here) are the ones perpetuating this problem on on the U.S. Auto industry. The same ones that are trying to bankrupt Social security, medicare, bail out banks, doubled gov spending. And we want them to have more say in what happens in this country???

When do we acknowledge that they've screwed it up. And when do we stop giving them more control to go and screw more up.

If you don't agree with bailing out the Auto industry then fine. But, don't be so quick to defend Mr. Moore, or the politicians trying to regulate the economy.

How can any of us give them more authority and power over anything given their past performance?

Every crisis we are facing at this time is because our government intervened when it should have let the experts do their job. When there is freedom in the market place, then let companies sink or swim. But when the Government's hands are just as bloody as everyone elses. Then they need to step up and give the appropriate measure of support.

You can't have it both ways. Mr. Moore's points are in my opinion going to give more influence to the same organization the got us here. That's why his opinion is stupid. In my humble opinion. Which very well may be even more stupid.

You decide.

And to be fair, None of the Mr. Moore supporters have justified why his opinons make sense. Repeating what others think or feel doesn't make a valid argument.

All your aforementioned problems aside (CAFE, etc). It's the problem that the average middle class consumer doesn't have the confidence or even the money to buy cars. There are $10k+ rebates on cars right now and people still aren't really buying, yes the mandates don't help, but everyone is grasped by the balls right now...

AngryAmish · 12-05-2008, 10:57 PM

i find alot of irony in this comment.

i mean, look at the guy. he is ALL about consumption. he probably emits more greenhouse gases from his ass then my 2k impala does in a year.

dont get me wrong, i consider myself a proud treehugger, but this guy irks me as much rush limbaugh. all people from both sides of the extreme irk me. they make the all of us reasonable people look like idiots to the rest of the world.

of course we should look into alternatives, and we are last time i checked. volt anyone?
and the last thing i want having a hand in the automotive industry is the government. they cant run the country right let alone a competitive business.

12-05-2008, 09:41 PM	#32
GTAHVIT Blessed Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saint Augustine FL Posts: 28,441 View My Garage	The polar caps aren't melting. They are now growing and have been for the last 3-5 years depending on the study you refer to. My personal opinion of Mr. Moore aside... What he says makes no sense. Government intervention is what has put the US auto industry in this position. It was the government that put CAFE in place, continues to increase the safety requirements, that punishes U.S. companies for selling overseas, that rewards foreign companies for selling in the U.S., That supported the UAW and pressured the auto industry to pay 3 times what the foreign competition pays in labor while letting foreign auto makers in the U. S. build cars with out union workers. Our Government that funds the publicity of global warming and refuses to report the natural cyclic state of the earths temperature. Fact: The warmest year on record was in the 1930's Not a very big carbon footprint then was there. Our elected officials (insert party name here) are the ones perpetuating this problem on on the U.S. Auto industry. The same ones that are trying to bankrupt Social security, medicare, bail out banks, doubled gov spending. And we want them to have more say in what happens in this country??? When do we acknowledge that they've screwed it up. And when do we stop giving them more control to go and screw more up. If you don't agree with bailing out the Auto industry then fine. But, don't be so quick to defend Mr. Moore, or the politicians trying to regulate the economy. How can any of us give them more authority and power over anything given their past performance? Every crisis we are facing at this time is because our government intervened when it should have let the experts do their job. When there is freedom in the market place, then let companies sink or swim. But when the Government's hands are just as bloody as everyone elses. Then they need to step up and give the appropriate measure of support. You can't have it both ways. Mr. Moore's points are in my opinion going to give more influence to the same organization the got us here. That's why his opinion is stupid. In my humble opinion. Which very well may be even more stupid. You decide. And to be fair, None of the Mr. Moore supporters have justified why his opinons make sense. Repeating what others think or feel doesn't make a valid argument. __________________ Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals."

12-05-2008, 10:04 PM	#37
GTAHVIT Blessed Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saint Augustine FL Posts: 28,441 View My Garage	Sorry for the rant everyone. Please stay on topic. Is Mr. Moore's plan a sound one? Thanks very much in advance. __________________ Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals."

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12-05-2008, 10:13 PM	#40
GrnMchin Not easy being Green Drives: 67 Nova SS Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 2,256	^Science (people that are a lot smarter then ME), Human, No Stay on topic

12-05-2008, 10:57 PM	#42
AngryAmish Drives: Impala Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 813	i find alot of irony in this comment. i mean, look at the guy. he is ALL about consumption. he probably emits more greenhouse gases from his ass then my 2k impala does in a year. dont get me wrong, i consider myself a proud treehugger, but this guy irks me as much rush limbaugh. all people from both sides of the extreme irk me. they make the all of us reasonable people look like idiots to the rest of the world. of course we should look into alternatives, and we are last time i checked. volt anyone? and the last thing i want having a hand in the automotive industry is the government. they cant run the country right let alone a competitive business.