My RT

[Dakota Kid]

Originally Posted by Zeus

And how do you fare when you pick on the Mustangs?

Ah, you beat me to it.

[Dakota Kid]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I say they should make both.

Not going to happen with Fiat....but if they dropped the Challenger and made the Charger the two door it should have been in the first place....I think they would have a huge hit.
The Charger is scheduled for a redesign in 2011 I believe...it it was the above version, put me down for one.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Dakota Kid

Ah, you beat me to it.

That was over a day ago! lol....

Originally Posted by Dakota Kid

Not going to happen with Fiat....but if they dropped the Challenger and made the Charger the two door it should have been in the first place....I think they would have a huge hit.
The Charger is scheduled for a redesign in 2011 I believe...it it was the above version, put me down for one.

I for one like the Challenger design more than the charger design. In my very humble and means nothing opinon the front of the Challenger OWNS the front of the Charger concept... where as the Charger > Challenger on the back.

Anyways I don't expect some fruity foo-foo Italian company like Fiat to understand and embrace American Muscle car culture. I wouldn't be suprised to see the ''muscle cars'' coming out of Dodge disappear at the end of their generation.

[Dakota Kid]

Originally Posted by Zeus

That was over a day ago! lol....







I for one like the Challenger design more than the charger design. In my very humble and means nothing opinon the front of the Challenger OWNS the front of the Charger concept... where as the Charger > Challenger on the back.

Anyways I don't expect some fruity foo-foo Italian company like Fiat to understand and embrace American Muscle car culture. I wouldn't be suprised to see the ''muscle cars'' coming out of Dodge disappear at the end of their generation.

Unfortunately, I think you may be right about Fiat. I love the Challenger design, from purely a looks perspective I like it more than my own SS Camaro. Its weight and lack of handling just killed it for me after I drove it...

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Dakota Kid

Unfortunately, I think you may be right about Fiat. I love the Challenger design, from purely a looks perspective I like it more than my own SS Camaro. Its weight and lack of handling just killed it for me after I drove it...

I think the weight is a draw back, but not a killer. Guys regularly report low 13's and even high 12's (basically the same as the Camaro SS) in the 1/4 stock.


The real KILLER imo is the price.


Camaro SS - 426hp - 32k

Mustang GT 5.0 - 400hp - 31k?

Challenger SRT - 425hp - 43k!!!!!


They effectively priced themselves out of a real comparison.

[Stew]

What I have read, the 200C is coming as is a Alfa Romeo, based on the Challengers LY (shortened wheelbase) platform. The bad, don't expect Hemis, rather turbo 4s and V6s, but they will at least be RWD.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Anyways I don't expect some fruity foo-foo Italian company like Fiat to understand and embrace American Muscle car culture. I wouldn't be suprised to see the ''muscle cars'' coming out of Dodge disappear at the end of their generation.

I don't know about that, Fiat has a history of allowing their sub-companies to create their own identities as long as they can make money. It's not like Alfa, Ferrari, and Maserati are known for making fuel sipping mini-cars (Fiat sub-companies).

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Anyways I don't expect some fruity foo-foo Italian company like Fiat to understand and embrace American Muscle car culture. I wouldn't be suprised to see the ''muscle cars'' coming out of Dodge disappear at the end of their generation.

I bet you're right too. Macaroni (or whatever his name is) has already said "Americans don't need 5..7L V8s to drive around in".

I'm fine with fuel efficient environmentally friendly vehicles as daily drivers. However, I do think we should have options for high performance fast cars if we chose to have them.

It seems money will get you anything. Met a guy at a local cruise-in with a Ferrari (can't remember the model) but it was a convertible and newer. At idle the exhaust was quiet...once he hit the gas it got pretty loud. When I asked him about it he said that below a certain RPM the exhaust went through catalytic converters but once you step on the gas, it's bypasses the cats and is just straight exhaust. We all laughed and couldn't figure out how they got that through emissions, but there it was.

So I gotta wonder if those type of cars can seem to skirt emissions, why not cars like ours? I'm guessing it has to do with the number sold per year or something, but it's still BS.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

I don't know about that, Fiat has a history of allowing their sub-companies to create their own identities as long as they can make money. It's not like Alfa, Ferrari, and Maserati are known for making fuel sipping mini-cars (Fiat sub-companies).

Are those sub-companies your referring to Ferrari, Maserati, and Alfa?


If so i'd say they aren't the best examples.... It seems like the European attitude in general is anti-muscle car.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I think the weight is a draw back, but not a killer. Guys regularly report low 13's and even high 12's (basically the same as the Camaro SS) in the 1/4 stock.


The real KILLER imo is the price.


Camaro SS - 426hp - 32k

Mustang GT 5.0 - 400hp - 31k?

Challenger SRT - 425hp - 43k!!!!!


They effectively priced themselves out of a real comparison.

Which is why I never even consider the SRT in comparisons. Way to much money for what you get.

My R/T listed for a blip over $38K which is still too much, but I bought mine for $33K and change on the "special deal" they had going in Feb.

The reason the Challenger still does pretty good even though it weighs 300 lbs more is the torque. My R/T is making nearly maximum torque by 2500 RPM and it stays there until redline.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

So I gotta wonder if those type of cars can seem to skirt emissions, why not cars like ours? I'm guessing it has to do with the number sold per year or something, but it's still BS.

My understanding is that you can get rated differently if you produce less than a certain number of year. You can get crash exemptions too.

Originally Posted by Zeus

Are those sub-companies your referring to Ferrari, Maserati, and Alfa?


If so i'd say they aren't the best examples.... It seems like the European attitude in general is anti-muscle car.

I was referring to those companies. I don't know you may be right, maybe I'm just being hopeful. However, Fiat has given some latitude. Hope that's the case here, but I won't start writing them off until I see it. Ferrari's don't get any better mileage than Challengers.

I get a mixed reading on the Euro attitude toward muscle- they seem fine with 6.2 litre Mercedes engines, the problem they have with American cars has more to do with their attitude toward Americans. Too brash and unrefined sort of crap.

I don't know squat of course, but I'm choosing to remain optimistic since I've allowed pessimism to creep into so many other areas of my life. It doesn't matter anyway- 2012 it all goes BOOM!

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

I was referring to those companies. I don't know you may be right, maybe I'm just being hopeful. However, Fiat has given some latitude. Hope that's the case here, but I won't start writing them off until I see it. Ferrari's don't get any better mileage than Challengers.

True, but I'd love to see the C02 emissions....

I get a mixed reading on the Euro attitude toward muscle- they seem fine with 6.2 litre Mercedes engines, the problem they have with American cars has more to do with their attitude toward Americans. Too brash and unrefined sort of crap.

Yea thats my understanding as well. They LOVE the AMG line and their big torquey V8's, but I never hear anything good said about muscle cars. Except when fifth gear reviewed the challenger.... that guy had a woody the whole time....



I don't know squat of course, but I'm choosing to remain optimistic since I've allowed pessimism to creep into so many other areas of my life. It doesn't matter anyway- 2012 it all goes BOOM!


there is actually a 2012 movie coming out lol. Looks like a dozen other movies that have come out the last few years.... ridding the 2012 hype wave.

[AZ MSCL]

WOW! This thread is still going? After reading most all the replies, I still say... Read the first post again. Torque, HP, 1/4 mile times - doesn't matter - find what floats yer boat, buy it, and have fun with it! Any of these cars can be turned into monsters with enough mods and money. Geez, I've seen 750 hp Jeep Cherokees that look completely stock. Regardless of what car you're driving (stock or slightly modded), imagine how you'd feel to get smoked by one of those at a stoplight race (which are stupid)...

[Zeus]

love that video