GM's Battery Electric lineup is going to be HOT

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

There will still be choice. Definitely fewer choices if you have to have an ICE vehicle. Just like a while ago there were fewer choices if you wanted a vehicle with a carburetor. Or a manual transmission. The chart below is from GM’s Investors Days presentation. Look how long ICE stays in the plan from the automaker that is hellbent on going zero emissions. And look at the types of vehicles those represent. Keep in mind that the chart is Number of Models, not Volume. Expect Heavy Duty versions of GM pickups to be among the last ICE vehicles left in the portfolio. Probably stretching into the 2030s. Same with Escalade, GM’s most profitable vehicle on a per unit basis. Do not expect to see Camaro among the blue group of vehicles long term. Corvette yes, Camaro no. Notice the drop in ICE Car/Crossover going from 2024 to 2025. Little doubt how Camaro fares there. It’s not high volume, it’s not high profit. It’s not staying.

Yeah, but this "choice" is the equivalent of saying "I don't have a choice of my old Motorola flip phone (Gibbs on NCIS lol)". Technology is passing us by. NVH is not a reason to suggest a car or truck is better (and I'll say it for the 1,000 time, nothing beat standing behind my SS Sedan and doing a remote start in the morning so YES, I get it). Outside of our segment, every OEM has been trying for years and spending a ton of $ to make ICE cars quieter and smoother. EVs are the holy grail for this. Start/Stop? In Europe that's to keep noise from traffic congestion down as much as FE.

In time this will sort itself out and 99% of the people will recognize this is the better mousetrap. For the limited few that actually DO modify a car or just have to have the NVH solution in their car, you'll still have choices, albeit limited.

And if you want a business opportunity? A company called PSI commercially sells the old Mark5 GM Big Block, as well as the old V6. They bought the tooling from GM when they shut down Big Block business. Small companies at low volumes not required to meet many of the FMVSS standards will pop up. Could be you.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

To my knowledge, Tesla's will be. Just they won't qualify for the full $10K or so in the latest proposal since they are not a union shop.

So our Government is picking winners and losers? Crazy and sad, very sad.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yeah, but this "choice" is the equivalent of saying "I don't have a choice of my old Motorola flip phone (Gibbs on NCIS lol)". Technology is passing us by. NVH is not a reason to suggest a car or truck is better (and I'll say it for the 1,000 time, nothing beat standing behind my SS Sedan and doing a remote start in the morning so YES, I get it). Outside of our segment, every OEM has been trying for years and spending a ton of $ to make ICE cars quieter and smoother. EVs are the holy grail for this. Start/Stop? In Europe that's to keep noise from traffic congestion down as much as FE.

In time this will sort itself out and 99% of the people will recognize this is the better mousetrap. For the limited few that actually DO modify a car or just have to have the NVH solution in their car, you'll still have choices, albeit limited.

And if you want a business opportunity? A company called PSI commercially sells the old Mark5 GM Big Block, as well as the old V6. They bought the tooling from GM when they shut down Big Block business. Small companies at low volumes not required to meet many of the FMVSS standards will pop up. Could be you.

I know the guy who shut down the Big Block business. See him every day.

Fun fact: The chief engineer for the Big Block at the end of its run was a guy named Bill Large.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Since the thread title is "GM's Battery Electric lineup is going to be HOT", here's what GM had to say about their lineup in their Investor Days presentations over the past couple days...

• Chevrolet Bolt EV and EUV
• GMC Hummer EV Truck
• GMC Hummer EV SUV
• Cadillac Lyriq
• Chevrolet Silverado EV
• GMC Sierra EV
• Equinox-sized CUV starting at $30,000
• Chevrolet Blazer EV
• CUV below Equinox-sized CUV at price below $30,000
• Cadillac Celestiq super lux sedan
• Buick CUVs (multiple)

GM is also working with Navistar to supply Hydrogen Fuel Cells for semi-trucks, Wabco to supply batteries and Hydrogen Fuel Cells for trains, and Liebherr to provide Hydrogen Fuel cells for aircraft.

The list has a few models that we have seen. Most of those are very expensive, limited in availability, and years away. The ones we haven't seen yet on that list have a few that are below 30K and unknown availability, and soccer-mom-mobiles at that. Not even listed is anything close to a Camaro replacement or any similar type sporty car. One hand built Sedan, the Celestiq, the most expensive of all of them.

It's a list alright. But not a very impressive one. GM looks like they are making no attempt to even compete with Tesla or any kind of performance EV market.

I'll bide my time for sure and wait and see what Dodge comes out with.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

The list has a few models that we have seen. Most of those are very expensive, limited in availability, and years away. The ones we haven't seen yet on that list have a few that are below 30K and unknown availability, and soccer-mom-mobiles at that. Not even listed is anything close to a Camaro replacement or any similar type sporty car. One hand built Sedan, the Celestiq, the most expensive of all of them.

It's a list alright. But not a very impressive one. GM looks like they are making no attempt to even compete with Tesla or any kind of performance EV market.

I'll bide my time for sure and wait and see what Dodge comes out with.

At my company, we have several GM performance vehicles in the forecast. Since we sell that forecast I make it a point not to discuss things in the forecast that have not yet been discussed in public or in industry media. It wouldn’t be fair to the customers we have that pay a pretty penny for that info. The ones I’ve listed are the ones Mark Reuss discussed at Investors Days so they are now part of the public discourse.

That was a long winded way of saying “just ‘cause GM hasn’t talked about it doesn’t mean it ain’t happening. It just means they haven’t talked about it.”

Example… We’ve had a Chevrolet Blazer EV in the forecast for at least two years. I’ve never discussed it here because GM never said anything about it and there haven’t been enough media discussions of it beyond pure speculation. Now that Reuss has said it, I can talk about it.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 90503

The list has a few models that we have seen. Most of those are very expensive, limited in availability, and years away. The ones we haven't seen yet on that list have a few that are below 30K and unknown availability, and soccer-mom-mobiles at that. Not even listed is anything close to a Camaro replacement or any similar type sporty car. One hand built Sedan, the Celestiq, the most expensive of all of them.

It's a list alright. But not a very impressive one. GM looks like they are making no attempt to even compete with Tesla or any kind of performance EV market.

I'll bide my time for sure and wait and see what Dodge comes out with.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

At my company, we have several GM performance vehicles in the forecast. Since we sell that forecast I make it a point not to discuss things in the forecast that have not yet been discussed in public or in industry media. It wouldn’t be fair to the customers we have that pay a pretty penny for that info. The ones I’ve listed are the ones Mark Reuss discussed at Investors Days so they are now part of the public discourse.

That was a long winded way of saying “just ‘cause GM hasn’t talked about it doesn’t mean it ain’t happening. It just means they haven’t talked about it.”

Example… We’ve had a Chevrolet Blazer EV in the forecast for at least two years. I’ve never discussed it here because GM never said anything about it and there haven’t been enough media discussions of it beyond pure speculation. Now that Reuss has said it, I can talk about it.

I will guarantee you this was NOT the full list.

GM has always maintained they don't talk about future product programs. What was doled out at this meeting was the "obvious" ones simply to get the stock holders reminded of GM's plan and to get the interest back up. This was a marketing play for the stock price.

We all expect an electric C8. Not on the list.

Stay tuned, more to come.

But buried in the recent EV talk was what was buried in the Hummer EV launch articles that reinforces GM took 2 years out of the development and relied heavily on math tools to shorten the development. As I've pointed out, there have been very few spy shots of Hummer EV or Lyriq and both launch in a matter of months. Interesting stuff.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I will guarantee you this was NOT the full list.

GM has always maintained they don't talk about future product programs. What was doled out at this meeting was the "obvious" ones simply to get the stock holders reminded of GM's plan and to get the interest back up. This was a marketing play for the stock price.

We all expect an electric C8. Not on the list.

Stay tuned, more to come.

But buried in the recent EV talk was what was buried in the Hummer EV launch articles that reinforces GM took 2 years out of the development and relied heavily on math tools to shorten the development. As I've pointed out, there have been very few spy shots of Hummer EV or Lyriq and both launch in a matter of months. Interesting stuff.

Yesterday GM closed up $2.72 and today it’s up another $2.47 after 2 hours of trading. It was an Investors meeting, after all.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yeah, but this "choice" is the equivalent of saying "I don't have a choice of my old Motorola flip phone (Gibbs on NCIS lol)". Technology is passing us by. NVH is not a reason to suggest a car or truck is better (and I'll say it for the 1,000 time, nothing beat standing behind my SS Sedan and doing a remote start in the morning so YES, I get it). Outside of our segment, every OEM has been trying for years and spending a ton of $ to make ICE cars quieter and smoother. EVs are the holy grail for this. Start/Stop? In Europe that's to keep noise from traffic congestion down as much as FE.

I don't know, the phone analogy has some problems, the first vechicles we're electric (1830 motorized carriage). There were electric car alternatives to the Model T.


From a motorsports perspective (one the Camaro draws from), a pure li ion EV is a not a better mouse trap until the specific energy density gets better. And the progress to get there is tied to advancements in material sciences then production techniques. The li ion battery was first commercially available in the 90's. And it has taken until now to make sense economically average (somewhat) cars. AFAIK we are stuck with li ion for some time.


Having said that,i have no problem with our Traverse being an EV! I look forward to it (given there's enough charging stations for road trips.)



https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...30-to-present/

[JamesNoBrakes]

People still own horses.

[Fak_Ork]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Other than GM hasn’t announced any timing on current of future Camaros, I’m not clear on your comment. Other companies are sure as hell” doing what? Hanging on? Stillantis has already announced they aren’t hanging on and Ford has not really announced anything regarding an ICE or EV Mustang future but they’ve been very clear their future is EV as well.

BMW has new gasoline models at several spots in the car lineup so they're starting those lines 6 years after Camaro was introduced. Audi is releasing new RS models. I guess, to be fair, we DO have the CT4 and 5 V blackwings but those are awfully pricey, the CT4V is going to run you a few k more than a C8 Vette if you don't want the manual.

For bargain performance, the Camaro is apparently the last we get.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Jim Martin or Number3,

I'm curious if either of you have heard what they plan to do with all these vehicles sitting around waiting for chips? If EV's are right around the corner, are they going to really flood the market when chips become available right before introducing all these new EVs? Somehow, I can't see them waiting to flood the market ever at all, even if chip production allowed it to happen. But I can't see how they would want hundred of thousands or millions (whatever the number is) of brand new ICE vehicles sitting on dealer lots for sale when EVs really ramp up.

GM’s own chart that I posted earlier in this thread indicates that ICE vehicles will still be produced through at least 2028. Longer, actually, but the chart only goes through ‘28. By then we’ll be sitting around the bar going “Remember when they had that chip shortage?” “Yeah, I remember. Think they called them Covid chips. Killed a lot of people with those things until they developed that EV vaccine”.

Those cars will get finished when chips become available. A lot of that is happening now.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

At my company, we have several GM performance vehicles in the forecast. Since we sell that forecast I make it a point not to discuss things in the forecast that have not yet been discussed in public or in industry media. It wouldn’t be fair to the customers we have that pay a pretty penny for that info. The ones I’ve listed are the ones Mark Reuss discussed at Investors Days so they are now part of the public discourse.

That was a long winded way of saying “just ‘cause GM hasn’t talked about it doesn’t mean it ain’t happening. It just means they haven’t talked about it.”

Example… We’ve had a Chevrolet Blazer EV in the forecast for at least two years. I’ve never discussed it here because GM never said anything about it and there haven’t been enough media discussions of it beyond pure speculation. Now that Reuss has said it, I can talk about it.

Originally Posted by Number 3

I will guarantee you this was NOT the full list.

GM has always maintained they don't talk about future product programs. What was doled out at this meeting was the "obvious" ones simply to get the stock holders reminded of GM's plan and to get the interest back up. This was a marketing play for the stock price.

We all expect an electric C8. Not on the list.

Stay tuned, more to come.

But buried in the recent EV talk was what was buried in the Hummer EV launch articles that reinforces GM took 2 years out of the development and relied heavily on math tools to shorten the development. As I've pointed out, there have been very few spy shots of Hummer EV or Lyriq and both launch in a matter of months. Interesting stuff.

Or, Mark Reuss doesn't talk about future products because there really aren't any?..Nice to believe and expect others, but even some he mentioned (Buick, etc.)...where are they?..Seems the ones he mentioned have a ways to go. If there are more that are unheard of yet, is it necessary to pull the wool over investors eyes? Would the stock have gone down if he mentioned a future EV Camaro?...lol

GM is good at canceling existing products. Bringing out new ones, not so much.

Even if I were an EV fan, there is nothing in the "known" line-up that has any appeal or is worth waiting for.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Or, Mark Reuss doesn't talk about future products because there really aren't any?..Nice to believe and expect others, but even some he mentioned (Buick, etc.)...where are they?..Seems the ones he mentioned have a ways to go. If there are more that are unheard of yet, is it necessary to pull the wool over investors eyes? Would the stock have gone down if he mentioned a future EV Camaro?...lol

GM is good at canceling existing products. Bringing out new ones, not so much.

Even if I were an EV fan, there is nothing in the "known" line-up that has any appeal or is worth waiting for.

So do you truly believe that a company that commits to spending tens of billions of dollars for new EV products, commits to having an entire brand all electric by 2030, and all passenger vehicles zero emissions by 2035 doesn’t have future products because you personally haven’t heard of them?

[90503]

No. I'm saying if you have them, what's the big secret?

On one hand they tell us ICE is ending and will end. But what comes after that is a big mystery.