GM's Battery Electric lineup is going to be HOT

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

Yes, now we're in the meat of it. That's a huge, ambitious list where the hell is any of it and what are we to make of this transformational sea change when you can't currently safely park their only BEV next to anything?

One more Camaro iteration to go along with the CT-V's would have been nice. Other companies sure as hell are doing it, why not hold on to that market and, you know, gradually transform so it might work?

Other than GM hasn’t announced any timing on current of future Camaros, I’m not clear on your comment. Other companies are sure as hell” doing what? Hanging on? Stillantis has already announced they aren’t hanging on and Ford has not really announced anything regarding an ICE or EV Mustang future but they’ve been very clear their future is EV as well.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Since the thread title is "GM's Battery Electric lineup is going to be HOT", here's what GM had to say about their lineup in their Investor Days presentations over the past couple days...

• Chevrolet Bolt EV and EUV
• GMC Hummer EV Truck
• GMC Hummer EV SUV
• Cadillac Lyriq
• Chevrolet Silverado EV
• GMC Sierra EV
• Equinox-sized CUV starting at $30,000
• Chevrolet Blazer EV
• CUV below Equinox-sized CUV at price below $30,000
• Cadillac Celestiq super lux sedan
• Buick CUVs (multiple)

GM is also working with Navistar to supply Hydrogen Fuel Cells for semi-trucks, Wabco to supply batteries and Hydrogen Fuel Cells for trains, and Liebherr to provide Hydrogen Fuel cells for aircraft.

Which of them is actually going to be made in the USA? Those are the only ones that should even be eligible for a tax credit since the tax credit is being covered by USA taxpayers. Tesla’s made in the USA should also be included in any tax credits.

Personally I feel anyone that can afford to buy a $50000 and up vehicle, should not be getting a tax credit. I’m not anti-EV, I really like the Hummer and look forward to seeing them in showrooms.

[Hops]

Was the Cadillac Celestiq ever introduced this summer? I read in articles earlier this year it would be revealed in late summer.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Realist

Which of them is actually going to be made in the USA? Those are the only ones that should even be eligible for a tax credit since the tax credit is being covered by USA taxpayers. Tesla’s made in the USA should also be included in any tax credits.

Personally I feel anyone that can afford to buy a $50000 and up vehicle, should not be getting a tax credit. I’m not anti-EV, I really like the Hummer and look forward to seeing them in showrooms.

This specific tax credit is about improving EV sales, not necessarily helping potential owners afford them.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Realist

Which of them is actually going to be made in the USA? Those are the only ones that should even be eligible for a tax credit since the tax credit is being covered by USA taxpayers. Tesla’s made in the USA should also be included in any tax credits.

Personally I feel anyone that can afford to buy a $50000 and up vehicle, should not be getting a tax credit. I’m not anti-EV, I really like the Hummer and look forward to seeing them in showrooms.

Chevrolet Bolt EV and EUV
GMC Hummer EV Truck
GMC Hummer EV SUV
Cadillac Lyriq
Chevrolet Silverado EV
GMC Sierra EV
Equinox-sized CUV starting at $30,000
Chevrolet Blazer EV
CUV below Equinox-sized CUV at price below $30,000
Cadillac Celestiq super lux sedan
Buick CUVs (multiple)

Made in US
Not sure yet
Not in US

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Other than GM hasn’t announc Other ed any timing on current of future Camaros, I’m not clear on your comment. Other companies are sure as hell” doing what? Hanging on? Stillantis has already announced they aren’t hanging on and Ford has not really announced anything regarding an ICE or EV Mustang future but they’ve been very clear their future is EV as well.

Dodge put a Hellcat into the Durango. Jeep put the 392 into the Wrangler. Ford is investigating in a S650 update and gave enthusiasts the GT500. GM can’t manage the LT5 in the ZL1. Definitely a difference in responsiveness to our niche.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Dodge put a Hellcat into the Durango. Jeep put the 392 into the Wrangler. Ford is investigating in a S650 update and gave enthusiasts the GT500. GM can’t manage the LT5 in the ZL1. Definitely a difference in responsiveness to our niche.

Oh I see. The walking dead is what you mean.

Mustang may hang on and if they are the remaining ICE Pony Car that could be a good play for Ford. But ultimately, it too will move to EV.

Stellantis has already announced that their NG cars will be EV as the next level of performance is not ICE.

Oh and GM could an LT5, the question is simply why? What would motivate them to do so? You and I thinking it would be cool isn't why they do things anymore.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Oh I see. The walking dead is what you mean.

Mustang may hang on and if they are the remaining ICE Pony Car that could be a good play for Ford. But ultimately, it too will move to EV.

Stellantis has already announced that their NG cars will be EV as the next level of performance is not ICE.

Oh and GM could an LT5, the question is simply why? What would motivate them to do so? You and I thinking it would be cool isn't why they do things anymore.

You and I were responding to this question (below).

You frequently tell us that dropping an LT5 into the ZL1 is mission impossible due to cost. Then I see poor Dodge dropping 392s and Hellcats into everything …including new hoods.

Chevy Performance is (was) better than Ford or Dodge but GM lacks the will. The others seem to value the halo affect.

I know… halo, marketing, etc. has no benefit to GM

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

One more Camaro iteration to go along with the CT-V's would have been nice. Other companies sure as hell are doing it, why not hold on to that market and, you know, gradually transform so it might work?

[Mike7409]

So if you think EV’s are simple
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OTpR6v3KQiQ

Here is a nice bat replacement link. And a ev add for GM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Q0nNkQTCo

Not against ev but just saying we should have a choice on what we want to drive.
The GM lineup looks cool. Hope it’s easier to work on than a Tesla.
What will we do when we can’t mod our electric ��

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Mike7409

So if you think EV’s are simple
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OTpR6v3KQiQ

Here is a nice bat replacement link. And a ev add for GM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Q0nNkQTCo

Not against ev but just saying we should have a choice on what we want to drive.
The GM lineup looks cool. Hope it’s easier to work on than a Tesla.
What will we do when we can’t mod our electric ��

It is the removal of choice that’s the real problem here. Forcing things on people never ends well. Take a look around, there’s another thing being mostly forced onto people too and it isn’t going over well!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

It is the removal of choice that’s the real problem here. Forcing things on people never ends well. Take a look around, there’s another thing being mostly forced onto people too and it isn’t going over well!

There will still be choice. Definitely fewer choices if you have to have an ICE vehicle. Just like a while ago there were fewer choices if you wanted a vehicle with a carburetor. Or a manual transmission. The chart below is from GM’s Investors Days presentation. Look how long ICE stays in the plan from the automaker that is hellbent on going zero emissions. And look at the types of vehicles those represent. Keep in mind that the chart is Number of Models, not Volume. Expect Heavy Duty versions of GM pickups to be among the last ICE vehicles left in the portfolio. Probably stretching into the 2030s. Same with Escalade, GM’s most profitable vehicle on a per unit basis. Do not expect to see Camaro among the blue group of vehicles long term. Corvette yes, Camaro no. Notice the drop in ICE Car/Crossover going from 2024 to 2025. Little doubt how Camaro fares there. It’s not high volume, it’s not high profit. It’s not staying.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

This specific tax credit is about improving EV sales, not necessarily helping potential owners afford them.

If this statement is true, why are Tesla’s not being included in the proposed tax credit?

Not to mention that as EVs on dealer lots increase and gas vehicle choices decline, the move to EVs would be a more natural progression without putting a country already in debt, further in debt.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Realist

If this statement is true, why are Tesla’s not being included in the proposed tax credit?

Not to mention that as EVs on dealer lots increase and gas vehicle choices decline, the move to EVs would be a more natural progression without putting a country already in debt, further in debt.

To my knowledge, Tesla's will be. Just they won't qualify for the full $10K or so in the latest proposal since they are not a union shop.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

This specific tax credit is about improving EV sales, not necessarily helping potential owners afford them.

Originally Posted by Realist

If this statement is true, why are Tesla’s not being included in the proposed tax credit?

Not to mention that as EVs on dealer lots increase and gas vehicle choices decline, the move to EVs would be a more natural progression without putting a country already in debt, further in debt.

The original incentive was purposed to allow manufacturers to offer EVs at "reasonable" price without losing their @$$. They could offer the vehicles at prices that didn't lose too much money in the first generations. The incentives reduced the price to the consumer to make them more competitive. The incentive was to apply to the first 200,000 qualifying vehicles for each manufacturer with the expectation that by then, they should be able to improve their product cost to offer the vehicles at the same net price to the consumer without losing their @$$.

Tesla and GM are the only automakers that have crossed the 200k line, so they no longer are eligible for the incentive. Both have reduced the prices of their EVs to be in line with where other manufacturers are, net of the incentive.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

To my knowledge, Tesla's will be. Just they won't qualify for the full $10K or so in the latest proposal since they are not a union shop.

This is spot on. The legislation that is in play is to

1. expand the 200,000 number to something higher. I'm hearing 400,000. This would make Tesla and GM eligible.
2. provide additional incentive for EVs made in the US (Tesla and GM would both qualify) and even more if the vehicle is built by union labor (GM would qualify, Tesla would not)
3. cap the price of EVs for which the incentives would apply (ie - stop subsidizing affluent buyers). Model S and Model X would probably fall out of eligibility, as would several if not all Cadillac and Hummer models. Model 3 and Model Y, and Chevrolets and Buicks would most likely be good to go, as well as Ford and Stellantis products.