Dodge Demon Revealed - Page 19

Raven87 · 04-13-2017, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoman

1st world problems eh? These are great times we live in, all these cars to admire. I would never be so short sighted to claim any of them were losing some fantasy "HP war". They each have their own merits.

The Demon is no less than $130k and first ones hitting the lot will be priced at $150k+

Dodge has already stated the Demon will come in less than $100k. What the stealerships do after that is anyone's guess but the MSRP will be less than $100K. How far less is also anyone's guess.

shaffe · 04-13-2017, 09:26 AM

Car & Driver estimate is 85K

Snoman · 04-13-2017, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven87

Dodge has already stated the Demon will come in less than $100k. What the stealerships do after that is anyone's guess but the MSRP will be less than $100K. How far less is also anyone's guess.

I'd be interested in seeing the quote stating price. From everything I've seen and been told, the $90k teaser is nothing more than pure hype. Tim Kuniskis and others are using words like "expect", "hope", "would like", "target" which all point to and prove one single thing; Dodge has put feelers to the market to determine how much profit they can squeeze out of this thing. It's pure marketing and sales 101. Even if this thing does land with a $95k MSRP, it will never sell that low at first.

Bhobbs · 04-13-2017, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoman

In what mythical universe? Halo cars only as a singular narrow minded snapshot of mythical proposed vehicles that aren't even on the street today? The Viper only has 645hp and is officially dead come Aug 31. The Hellcat's creative flashy fake brochure numbers of "707" is currently getting walked by the ZL1 and Z06. The mustang has been playing catch up for nearly 10 years and their halo GT350 was a hp/tq failure that can't compete with even SS models. Mythical GT500? Unavailable for 2 years and it's already projected to be just as much a dismal failure in performance levels as the GT350. Fast forward a year or two when GM releases their next evolution product line and Dodge and Ford will once again be found lacking.

Viper has a naturally aspirated engine at 645. The Voodoo has a naturally aspirated engine at 526. The Camaro/Corvette has a naturally aspirated engine at 455.

The GT500 had a supercharged engine at 662. The Hellcat has a supercharged engine at 707. The Demon has a supercharged engine at 808. The next GT500 is likely to break 700 hp.

The Hellcat pulls harder above 130 mph than the Z06. It's been shown many times that the Z06 falls on its face at high speeds. It may be an aero thing or something else but it happens.

I'm not talking about chassis technology or overall packaging of the cars. In the pure horsepower wars, GM isn't even close to Dodge or Ford. GM makes incremental increases, where the other two push it as far as they can.

rocket403 · 04-13-2017, 10:21 AM

Demon is 840hp

Raven87 · 04-13-2017, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I'm not talking about chassis technology or overall packaging of the cars. In the pure horsepower wars, GM isn't even close to Dodge or Ford. GM makes incremental increases, where the other two push it as far as they can.

Exactly.

Raven87 · 04-13-2017, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket403

Demon is 840hp

With the red key and race gas, yes, that's Dodge's 'rated' number. 808 without the additional PCM and no 100 octane fuel. 500HP with the black key.

But if you do the math via online HP calculators, to move a 4250 lb car with a driver to get a 9.65 et and 140 mph trap speed, the calculated HP is well north of 900 in full race tune.

speedyman · 04-13-2017, 10:33 AM

The Demon reveal is somewhat reminiscent of the buzz that accompanied the GT500KR when it became available. Sticker $83,000, saw one go on Ebay for $106,000 very early on. Sticker became an impossible mark for the retailers in short order. Many of these cars sat for 2 or 3 years and sold new in the low 50s. The grease ball car dealer mind will be blinded by avarice as it usually with this kind of offering. They will make a mess out of this one as they always do.

Raven87 · 04-13-2017, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyman

The Demon reveal is somewhat reminiscent of the buzz that accompanied the GT500KR when it became available. Sticker $83,000, saw one go on Ebay for $106,000 very early on. Sticker became an impossible mark for the retailers in short order. Many of these cars sat for 2 or 3 years and sold new in the low 50s. The grease ball car dealer mind will be blinded by avarice as it usually with this kind of offering. They will make a mess out of this one as they always do.

Yep. And we've seen it on about every new performance car release. Remember when the '90 Corvette ZR1 was released? Stupidly insane markups were asked for and paid.

Even when the '07 GT500 came out it was a feeding frenzy. Same for the 5th Gen Z/28 - ridiculous markups. 2012 ZL1 - you couldn't find one at first for MSRP.

Then, reality set in.

I'm really surprised the GT350 ADM has hung on as long as it has.

And so it goes...

shaffe · 04-13-2017, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven87

Yep. And we've seen it on about every new performance car release. Remember when the '90 Corvette ZR1 was released? Stupidly insane markups were asked for and paid.

Even when the '07 GT500 came out it was a feeding frenzy. Same for the 5th Gen Z/28 - ridiculous markups. 2012 ZL1 - you couldn't find one at first for MSRP.

Then, reality set in.

I'm really surprised the GT350 ADM has hung on as long as it has.

And so it goes...

Yep. I am surprised the 350 ADM has hung this long as well. On the 350R I still understand it with only 500 or so yearly. However they are building quite a few non R cars, that I thought the markups would have come way down by now.

SpeedIsLife · 04-13-2017, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoman

In what mythical universe? Halo cars only as a singular narrow minded snapshot of mythical proposed vehicles that aren't even on the street today? The Viper only has 645hp and is officially dead come Aug 31. The Hellcat's creative flashy fake brochure numbers of "707" is currently getting walked by the ZL1 and Z06. The mustang has been playing catch up for nearly 10 years and their halo GT350 was a hp/tq failure that can't compete with even SS models. Mythical GT500? Unavailable for 2 years and it's already projected to be just as much a dismal failure in performance levels as the GT350. Fast forward a year or two when GM releases their next evolution product line and Dodge and Ford will once again be found lacking.

So do you have any back up to your claims the 707 HP number is fake? Or that the GT350 was a HP/TQ failure? or that it was a performance failure?

You sound more like an angry, fit throwing fanboy that's closer to thePill than most would think.

396ssrat · 04-13-2017, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoman

In what mythical universe? Halo cars only as a singular narrow minded snapshot of mythical proposed vehicles that aren't even on the street today? The Viper only has 645hp and is officially dead come Aug 31. The Hellcat's creative flashy fake brochure numbers of "707" is currently getting walked by the ZL1 and Z06. The mustang has been playing catch up for nearly 10 years and their halo GT350 was a hp/tq failure that can't compete with even SS models. Mythical GT500? Unavailable for 2 years and it's already projected to be just as much a dismal failure in performance levels as the GT350. Fast forward a year or two when GM releases their next evolution product line and Dodge and Ford will once again be found lacking.

I don't know which track you frequent but the Zo6 isn't going by HC's on the left coast. And for what it's worth neither is the Zl1. Both the M6 cars have issues going down track, the auto's are considerably quicker.
I've only seen a couple(2) Zl1's on the track here but thus far they aren't exactly track killers. Maybe in time they will be improved. Yes, the Dealer markup is nothing more than greed. The Demon will be a rich boy's car.

Rob07002 · 04-13-2017, 11:59 AM

Right now HellCat leases is $599 x 36 with $2500 down. Compared with a ZL1 which is actually cheaper at over $700 x 48 with over $7000 down. Something is wrong here.

Russell James · 04-13-2017, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

I don't know which track you frequent but the Zo6 isn't going by HC's on the left coast. And for what it's worth neither is the Zl1. Both the M6 cars have issues going down track, the auto's are considerably quicker.
I've only seen a couple(2) Zl1's on the track here but thus far they aren't exactly track killers. Maybe in time they will be improved. Yes, the Dealer markup is nothing more than greed. The Demon will be a rich boy's car.

If you had a Z06, ZL1,Z28,Hellcat, Boss302... on a road course. The fastest time would be the best driver. Seen it happen.

A friend of mine is a pro driver in SCCA. I've seen him set a fast time if what people thought was a modded ringer... then he'll borrow someone else's car running a couple seconds slower... and set even a faster lap.

Once you get to that level of car, it's so much the driver.

04-13-2017, 10:21 AM	#257
rocket403 Drives: 80 Cutlass 403, 2010 FF RT Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ontario Posts: 921	Demon is 840hp

04-13-2017, 10:33 AM	#260
speedyman Account Suspended Drives: ATS4 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: SW PA Posts: 223	The Demon reveal is somewhat reminiscent of the buzz that accompanied the GT500KR when it became available. Sticker $83,000, saw one go on Ebay for $106,000 very early on. Sticker became an impossible mark for the retailers in short order. Many of these cars sat for 2 or 3 years and sold new in the low 50s. The grease ball car dealer mind will be blinded by avarice as it usually with this kind of offering. They will make a mess out of this one as they always do.

04-13-2017, 11:59 AM	#265
Rob07002 Drives: Pro-Touring 1969 Camaro RS/SS Vert Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Old Bridge, NJ Posts: 47	Right now HellCat leases is $599 x 36 with $2500 down. Compared with a ZL1 which is actually cheaper at over $700 x 48 with over $7000 down. Something is wrong here.