Definition of a muscle car...

[1troyd23]

All really really good points guys !!! :-)

[808NHBK]

IMO these new Mustangs and Camaros are just sport cars now. They're lighter, have four cylinder options and are designed to look like lean sports cars. There is a reason why you here often that the Challenger is the last "true" muscle car still left, because it's the only one that still adheres to the tradition of a big burly vehicle hence the "muscle" name nomenclature. Yes, we all make fun of the challenger for being a fat "overweight" hog especially the hellcat, but that's the reason why many people love them. To me it'a all nostalgia. The Camaro to me is almost the same size as a Corvette now except with "back seats" if you even want to call them that because you're not putting a full size adult in that back seat.

[flipstyledsm22]

Originally Posted by 808NHBK

IMO these new Mustangs and Camaros are just sport cars now. They're lighter, have four cylinder options and are designed to look like lean sports cars. There is a reason why you here often that the Challenger is the last "true" muscle car still left, because it's the only one that still adheres to the tradition of a big burly vehicle hence the "muscle" name nomenclature. Yes, we all make fun of the challenger for being a fat "overweight" hog especially the hellcat, but that's the reason why many people love them. To me it'a all nostalgia. The Camaro to me is almost the same size as a Corvette now except with "back seats" if you even want to call them that because you're not putting a full size adult in that back seat.

If you park a 5th gen next to a 1st gen Camaro, the 5th gen will definitely look larger. If anything, the newer models are getting a wider foot, making them look massive in comparison to the older Camaros.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by ZMEnow

Oh really..

1967 Chevrolet Impala 4-Door Sedan 427 V-8 Turbo-Jet 385-hp 4-speed

• Chevrolet Impala 4-Door Sedan 427 V-8 Turbo-Jet 385-hp 4-speed, model year 1967, version for North America U.S. (up to September)
• 4-door sedan body type
• RWD (rear-wheel drive), manual 4-speed gearbox
• petrol (gasoline) engine with displacement: 6996 cm3 / 426.9 cui, advertised power: 287 kW / 385 hp / 390 PS ( SAE gross ), torque: 624 Nm / 460 lb-ft
• characteristic dimensions: outside length: 5415 mm / 213.2 in, wheelbase: 3023 mm / 119 in
• reference weights: base curb weight: 1838 kg / 4052 lbs
• how fast is this car ? top speed: 211 km/h (131 mph) (theoretical);
• accelerations: 0- 60 mph 6.5 s; 0- 100 km/h 6.8 s (simulation ©automobile-catalog.com); 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 15 s (simulation ©automobile-catalog.com)
• fuel consumption and mileage: average estimated by a-c: 21.3 l/100km / 13.3 mpg (imp.) / 11 mpg (U.S.) / 4.7 km/l

Ya really.....this has been beat to death. Show me the designation showing a 4dr Impala as a muscle car.....sure it has a great motor and drivetrain but was still a 4 dr car.

[AJensen383]

Originally Posted by 808NHBK

IMO these new Mustangs and Camaros are just sport cars now. They're lighter, have four cylinder options and are designed to look like lean sports cars. There is a reason why you here often that the Challenger is the last "true" muscle car still left, because it's the only one that still adheres to the tradition of a big burly vehicle hence the "muscle" name nomenclature. Yes, we all make fun of the challenger for being a fat "overweight" hog especially the hellcat, but that's the reason why many people love them. To me it'a all nostalgia. The Camaro to me is almost the same size as a Corvette now except with "back seats" if you even want to call them that because you're not putting a full size adult in that back seat.

I agree!... But I do have to say, its still hard fitting a full size adult in the back of a 60s/70s muscle car ( Camaro, Nova, Chevelle) especially with the front seat all the way back

[ZMEnow]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

Ya really.....this has been beat to death. Show me the designation showing a 4dr Impala as a muscle car.....sure it has a great motor and drivetrain but was still a 4 dr car.

I had a 69 Mach 1 that I had Carl Holbrook punch .30 over and it ran 10.70 back in 71. My good friend who has now passed had a 69 Caprice 427 auto with BM 5k Stall, 4.56 r, and always spanked me with consistent 10.50's. He drove it to work everyday, picked his wife up from work in it, and spanked every class of muscle car named. The learning factor here is MUSCLE car..

I learned a lot about true performance as I was a dedicated Ford guy until I got of sick of guys buying Nova's with no air, or PS, with 396/375 HI-PO's and putting headers, slicks, traction bars and ripping consistent low 12's for less than a weeks worth of today's pay for most people for the whole car. So say what you will that big honk-in 4 door was nothing but MUSCLE CAR.

1969 Chevrolet Caprice Custom Sedan 427 V-8 Turbo-Jet 390-hp Hydra-Matic

• Chevrolet Caprice Custom Sedan 427 V-8 Turbo-Jet 390-hp Hydra-Matic, model year 1969, version for North America U.S. (up to September)
• 4-door sedan body type
• RWD (rear-wheel drive), automatic 3-speed gearbox
• petrol (gasoline) engine with displacement: 6996 cm3 / 426.9 cui, advertised power: 291 kW / 390 hp / 396 PS ( SAE gross ), torque: 624 Nm / 460 lb-ft
• characteristic dimensions: outside length: 5484 mm / 215.9 in, wheelbase: 3023 mm / 119 in
• reference weights: base curb weight: 1959 kg / 4319 lbs
• how fast is this car ? top speed: 210 km/h (131 mph) (theoretical);
• accelerations: 0- 60 mph 7.3 s; 0- 100 km/h 7.7 s (simulation ©automobile-catalog.com); 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 16 s (simulation ©automobile-catalog.com)
• fuel consumption and mileage: average estimated by a-c: 22.7 l/100km / 12.4 mpg (imp.) / 10.3 mpg (U.S.) / 4.4 km/l

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

Ya really.....this has been beat to death. Show me the designation showing a 4dr Impala as a muscle car.....sure it has a great motor and drivetrain but was still a 4 dr car.

Where is any muscle car designated muscle car and who is in charge of deciding?

[JamesMyBoy]

In my memory (which may be slightly flawed, since I'm pretty old), the term Muscle Car referred to the models that started out as "normal" cars (thinking of Plymouth Belvederes, Chevy Biscaynes, etc.) that the manufacturers stuffed high horsepower engines into. Back in the day (yes I was there), one could get away with fairly decent insurance rates, since the Ins. companies based the rates on which model you were trying to get coverage for. At some point around 1968 - 69, they got wise to the above practice, and started picking up on the different engines that could be put into which body styles. Don't know who coined the phrase, but I didn't hear it when I bought my 1969 RoadRunner... Don't even remember hearing it until sometime in the 70's or 80's. Point being, there were a lot of what we now consider Muscle cars running around for a lot of years before they were called that as a class or type of car. Might be one of those things like beauty being in the eye of the beholder. To me, if you can feel and hear the muscle, it's a muscle car :-)
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Curts14]

My '65 Impala 4 door was not considered a muscle car, but it came with the 300 HP 327 cu. in. engine and factory 4.11 gears. It was ordered that way for towing. I blew off a lot of so called muscle cars with it. It did not weigh as much as my new Camaro.

[BeachBum]

Originally Posted by Sven59

The 1949 Oldsmobile 88 is widely considered the first muscle car.

Yes, had a 1949 Olds 88 In High School - 303 cubes V8 - was A Pretty Fast Car Back In The Day

[lbls1]

The original penned definition was an intermediate two-door sized car with a large cubic inch engine. In the mid sixties, that term included the then-new GTO, Olds Cutlass 442, the newly introduced Chevelle SS396, Buick GS, and quite a few Chrysler entries; SuperBee, Charger, GTX; Ford Torino, Fairlane and Cobra. Camaro, Mustang, Challenger and Barracuda were considered as members of the Pony Car genre. Impalas, Buick Wildcat and the like-sized cars had sporty versions with large cubic inch engines, but they were not termed as muscle cars.

Fast forward to today; Camaro and Charger/Challenger have grown considerably in weight, so by size they would be considered as muscle cars. If you adhere strictly to their predecessor's original size categories, then they would be considered Pony Cars instead of a Muscle car.

[Kenny Camaro]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

Ya really.....this has been beat to death. Show me the designation showing a 4dr Impala as a muscle car.....sure it has a great motor and drivetrain but was still a 4 dr car.

Ronnies right, +1

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Where is any muscle car designated muscle car and who is in charge of deciding?

http://www.musclecarclub.com/muscle-car-definition/
When it comes to designation and definition....ill go with this.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by Kenny Camaro

Ronnies right, +1

Unless the Imp 4dr came in the SS ....then yep. If it did then I apologize. ....