GM beats June sales forecast

[stovt001]

I'm all for drilling for oil on our own land and waters and then selling it to China. Having them depend on our imports would be a pretty nice change if you ask me. While they get addicted to our ever more expensive oil we can wean ourselves off it and find something cleaner and cheaper. Stock in American gas companies goes up, we're cleaner and economically better off, and they're dependent on us. I can dream right?

Consumption in China is interesting as there are many variables behind it. Goods are subsidized, but as the price increases the government must raise prices to make ends meet. With such rapid growth you have to wonder if they'll grow too fast and will burst a bubble. Also, this pseudo-capitalism but really communism can't possibly be sustainable can it? The whole situation seems a little unstable to me and it will be the big question facing our society for years to come.

[Nickdago]

That could happen

[DGthe3]

Its really awkward exporting oil while you still import it. Alberta sends its oil to you, in Ontario we get ours from the middle east.

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by chadrcr

yea, I lost about 30% mpg, but it was near 30% cheaper ( 2006 )
I would rather burn American Corn (for now) than OPEC oil, and work on the alternatives for making E-85.
There is the propane/ natural gas option for some cars; If we can go back to the 70's, we had a propane capable Ford pickup.

Actually I just saw a report on ethanol on CNN and it was not all that promising as far as ethanol having a huge impact on our needs. Corn is definantly not the answer, they said even if we used all the corn in America it would only replace 6% of the oil we use. And they were saying there are other enviromental concerns with etahnol. They said the plants almost all use coal to make ethanol as well as over 3 gallons of water per 1 gal of ethanol. In the short run I do not think we have any choice but to Drill for oil and natural gas while we figure out what technologies and alternative source of energy are really going to work and work economically

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Its really awkward exporting oil while you still import it. Alberta sends its oil to you, in Ontario we get ours from the middle east.

Well my hope was that eventually we could get off of oil, but since we'd still be drilling it we could export it.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Nickdago

Actually I just saw a report on ethanol on CNN and it was not all that promising as far as ethanol having a huge impact on our needs. Corn is definantly not the answer, they said even if we used all the corn in America it would only replace 6% of the oil we use. And they were saying there are other enviromental concerns with etahnol. They said the plants almost all use coal to make ethanol as well as over 3 gallons of water per 1 gal of ethanol. In the short run I do not think we have any choice but to Drill for oil and natural gas while we figure out what technologies and alternative source of energy are really going to work and work economically

Saying that ethanol has environmental impacts is like saying electricity has environmental impacts: it all depends on the source. There are good ways to do it, and bad ways. But right now they all tend to get lumped together by the media, including CNN.

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Well my hope was that eventually we could get off of oil, but since we'd still be drilling it we could export it.

It is fine to GET away from using oil in future cars..... what about the millions of cars that are still going to be NEEDING oil? Such as 1969 Camaro.... 1969 Anything?!?!?! I am hoping to be able to fuel old vehicles forever with oil, partly because many future cars will be Volts etc...

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Saying that ethanol has environmental impacts is like saying electricity has environmental impacts: it all depends on the source. There are good ways to do it, and bad ways. But right now they all tend to get lumped together by the media, including CNN.

Actually at this time everything about the way the US is doing ethanol is rediculous. Using our foods and farm lands to grow gas was an idiotic idea from the very beginning and does not get any better with time.

GM is working with partners to develop ethanol without using our farm lands and food products and that is the technology we need to be focusing on not Corn in the Tank.

[stovt001]

Oh yes I didn't mean to imply we'd never need oil. However, if the only cars using oil (or at least using it at any significant rate) were old cars, we wouldn't have to import nearly as much, if any. I see that scenario kinda like horses- they were once used for work and transportation, but then the automobile came along and made them mostly obsolete for the purpose. Does that mean you can't ride a horse anymore? Not at all.

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Oh yes I didn't mean to imply we'd never need oil. However, if the only cars using oil (or at least using it at any significant rate) were old cars, we wouldn't have to import nearly as much, if any. I see that scenario kinda like horses- they were once used for work and transportation, but then the automobile came along and made them mostly obsolete for the purpose. Does that mean you can't ride a horse anymore? Not at all.

Well, it has been a while.... but I think I still can......

same page on the oil/demand... bring on the Volts.... and MY Camaro

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Nickdago

that is the technology we need to be focusing on not Corn in the Tank.

Consider it "primitive" technology, rather than bad or stupid. Ethanol from corn as fuel has been around for a LONG time. In fact; Henry Ford imagined the model T would be running off of it, not that 'gasoline' stuff....

Back in the days when we weren't feeding everyone else on the planet, corn ethanol wasn't a bad idea. Couple that with the fact that barely anyone used it, and it seemed like a darn GOOD idea. However, now that it's being looked at as a viable fuel alternative fuel -- more people want to use it; the government wants us to use it. So it becomes much less appealing when you have to use almost all your country's farmland to make a dent in gasoline useage as they'd like it to.

I don't disagree with you, GM was smart for putting their money into non-food Ethanol companies. And one of them will have a medium-sized plant up and running around the end of this year.

[Nickdago]

I have no doubt that we are going to make quite a few mistakes in our quest for alterantive fuels over the next 20 to 50 years, but hey just part of the process to greatness.