GM beats June sales forecast

[Beyond Limits]

That is awesome. The General could use some good news in the markets these days...

I didn' think that Chrysler published numbers anymore since they no longer have to report to shareholders.

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Will we really? I'm of the opinion that expensive gas will actually be very good for us long term. Besides, Congress has no business getting involved in these matters. They just screw things up, and besides its outside of their Constitutional duties. Some good reality check readings:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...0.html?cnn=yes

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/01/smal....fsb/index.htm

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/..._projects.fsb/

And you're telling me you want to give up all of that just so we can propel ourselves from place to place with some antiquated process of lighting old dinosaur juice on fire? Psh, why squash innovation? Future tech is fun.

The first article talks about that fact that Americans are so stupid that the only way they will change is if it is forced on them while the second article talks about how an American company has been working for over 20 years on a new source of power for electricity. The third article again talks about someone who has already been looking to create energy from a thermal source which again has already been going on long before the high oil prices.So which is it, are we that stupid or have we already been looking for alternative sources of energy and have just not yet perfected the technology. I know for a fact we have been working on cold fusion for over 50 years, not because oil is 140/barrel but because this is America and we are always looking for a better way. I think it is obvious to most Americans that we can continue the technology advances we have become used to over our entire history without the pain of high oil. There is no reason for oil to be priced at where it is. In Europe they have been suffering with high oil prices for years and they have done nothing to create technology that would solve the issue, which is really only about the goverment over taxing their people. We will create new and better energy technology no matter what and this idea that we have to suffer is barbaric.

[chadrcr]

^

[stovt001]

Sure people will work on it regardless, because there are just some really cool nerds out there. However, consumers won't care until they're forced to. When California mandated electric cars years ago no one bought any because gas was so darn cheap. They existed, sure, but no one cared. Think they care now? Yup. The difference between media tech and energy tech is that people could immediately perceive the visual/audio advantages of CDs and DVDs, while they can't immediate perceive the advantages of hydrogen/ethanol/electricity/whatever besides the price and environmental issues. How many of you cared about alternative fuels even 3 years ago? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Ha of course not! everyone was buying huge SUVs they didn't need 3 years ago. People are passionate about media and computer tech, hence why they will camp out overnight to buy the newest iCrap. There are a few people who get excited about energy alternatives on their own merits, but the average person sees energy as the cost of going from A to B, and therefore look on it as strictly economic. If the price of gas is high, they'll embrace alternatives. If the price of gas is low they will openly mock alternatives. History so clearly proves this I just don't understand why I have to keep arguing this.

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Sure people will work on it regardless, because there are just some really cool nerds out there. However, consumers won't care until they're forced to. When California mandated electric cars years ago no one bought any because gas was so darn cheap. They existed, sure, but no one cared. Think they care now? Yup. The difference between media tech and energy tech is that people could immediately perceive the visual/audio advantages of CDs and DVDs, while they can't immediate perceive the advantages of hydrogen/ethanol/electricity/whatever besides the price and environmental issues. How many of you cared about alternative fuels even 3 years ago? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Ha of course not! everyone was buying huge SUVs they didn't need 3 years ago. People are passionate about media and computer tech, hence why they will camp out overnight to buy the newest iCrap. There are a few people who get excited about energy alternatives on their own merits, but the average person sees energy as the cost of going from A to B, and therefore look on it as strictly economic. If the price of gas is high, they'll embrace alternatives. If the price of gas is low they will openly mock alternatives. History so clearly proves this I just don't understand why I have to keep arguing this.

In the seventies farmers (including my family) in Texas were trying to get ethanol going, so I grew up wanting alternative fuels.
That blanket statement, and those like it... exemplify a lack of forethought.....
umm... that means you type faster than you think...

How about ; we go for moderately priced gas and quit arguing...
obviously everyone will not believe (in) everything the same way.

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Will we really? I'm of the opinion that expensive gas will actually be very good for us long term. Besides, Congress has no business getting involved in these matters. They just screw things up, and besides its outside of their Constitutional duties. Some good reality check readings:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...0.html?cnn=yes

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/01/smal....fsb/index.htm

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/..._projects.fsb/

And you're telling me you want to give up all of that just so we can propel ourselves from place to place with some antiquated process of lighting old dinosaur juice on fire? Psh, why squash innovation? Future tech is fun.

You have been basking in the Obama and Gore Juice to long, it is starting to effect your thought patterns.

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by Nickdago

You know that is great that you have your own agenda however just because a lot of other people do not agree with your view of how the world should be does not make their opinion and less relevent than your own. What makes you so sure you have the magic pill to fix everything, you have a direct line to Heavan? And I am always weary of peple such as yourself who think the rest of us are to stupid to think for ourselves so you are going to pass laws amd make the goverment even bigger than it is just so you can tell us how it is.

you talkin to me??? 'cause I was on your side....

[Mr. Wyndham]

These arguments are spreading throughout other threads...It's getting rediculous, and I would REALLY appreciate it if it all Stopped.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

These arguments are spreading throughout other threads...It's getting rediculous, and I would REALLY appreciate it if it all Stopped.

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Sure people will work on it regardless, because there are just some really cool nerds out there. However, consumers won't care until they're forced to. When California mandated electric cars years ago no one bought any because gas was so darn cheap. They existed, sure, but no one cared. Think they care now? Yup. The difference between media tech and energy tech is that people could immediately perceive the visual/audio advantages of CDs and DVDs, while they can't immediate perceive the advantages of hydrogen/ethanol/electricity/whatever besides the price and environmental issues. How many of you cared about alternative fuels even 3 years ago? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Ha of course not! everyone was buying huge SUVs they didn't need 3 years ago. People are passionate about media and computer tech, hence why they will camp out overnight to buy the newest iCrap. There are a few people who get excited about energy alternatives on their own merits, but the average person sees energy as the cost of going from A to B, and therefore look on it as strictly economic. If the price of gas is high, they'll embrace alternatives. If the price of gas is low they will openly mock alternatives. History so clearly proves this I just don't understand why I have to keep arguing this.

You know that is great that you have your own agenda however just because a lot of other people do not agree with your view of how the world should be does not make their opinion and less relevent than your own. What makes you so sure you have the magic pill to fix everything, you have a direct line to Heavan? And I am always weary of peple such as yourself who think the rest of us are to stupid to think for ourselves so you are going to pass laws amd make the goverment even bigger than it is just so you can tell us how it is.

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by chadrcr

you talkin to me??? 'cause I was on your side....

I am sorry I am talking to STOVT001. I completely apologize for the error, I must have been posting without my reading glasses. Please accept my apology.

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by Nickdago

I am sorry I am talking to STOVT001. I completely apologize for the error, I must have been posting without my reading glasses. Please accept my apology.

So, now we can all be friends and buy many Camaros... OR a little gas...

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Nickdago
You know that is great that you have your own agenda however just because a lot of other people do not agree with your view of how the world should be does not make their opinion and less relevent than your own. What makes you so sure you have the magic pill to fix everything, you have a direct line to Heavan? And I am always weary of peple such as yourself who think the rest of us are to stupid to think for ourselves so you are going to pass laws amd make the goverment even bigger than it is just so you can tell us how it is.

Apologies to the mods for continuing this. I promise I won't get into gas prices vs alternatives again. I just want to say I think everyone totally misunderstood what I'm saying. It appears people think I'm arguing for government intervention of global warming policies. However, exactly the opposite is true. I oppose any government price manipulation, up or down. I believe that the market and the market alone should determine prices. I'm also very much against Gore and his followers. I believe global warming is a scam. To clarify my position, I'm simply stating that market conditions have created an environment that has brought popular attention to the inventions of brilliant Americans (as well as others) that would otherwise be ignored, and as such I oppose artificially lowering prices because it would stifle this free market innovation. Sorry for bringing this up again, but I wanted to clarify because it looks like much of this debate resulted from me not being as clear as I should have.

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Apologies to the mods for continuing this. I promise I won't get into gas prices vs alternatives again. I just want to say I think everyone totally misunderstood what I'm saying. It appears people think I'm arguing for government intervention of global warming policies. However, exactly the opposite is true. I oppose any government price manipulation, up or down. I believe that the market and the market alone should determine prices. I'm also very much against Gore and his followers. I believe global warming is a scam. To clarify my position, I'm simply stating that market conditions have created an environment that has brought popular attention to the inventions of brilliant Americans (as well as others) that would otherwise be ignored, and as such I oppose artificially lowering prices because it would stifle this free market innovation. Sorry for bringing this up again, but I wanted to clarify because it looks like much of this debate resulted from me not being as clear as I should have.

I hope that this gas price situation is temporary, like it was in the 70's.
Your point about the current market forcing new innovation is valid. I just hope that 'we' can use this as inspiration to work on the future tech AND also get lower prices back. I am optimistic that this gas price increase will spur development, and I hope that we will pursue ALL energy options even if prices go down some.
I believe in global warming... there was an ICEAGE and then the globe warmed....