2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Trap speed is the best indication of potential. ET is dictated by available traction.

Assuming a dead hook a trap of 126 would produce a roughly 11.3 ET in a 4500 lb car

Yes, and if the GT500 could dead hook with a trap speed of 125 it would produce a roughly 10.9 ET in a 3900lb car for $5,000 less than what Dodge is charging for the Autocat. I'm struggling to see how the Hellokitty offers anything more than what has already been done? The GT500 manual appears every bit as fast as the Hellokitty with magical 8-speed automatic. The ZL1 will likely (track tests TBD) be faster around anything with a turn. But the Dodge is more roomy!!! so there's that.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

How long can the Viper survive when outrun by a 1/2 price family member? How long will it survive as a few-100-build car? Sales number predict future...or the lack, thereof...

Agreed.

Originally Posted by shaffe

and I think that is Viper's problem. they need to make a "base" model if they want it to be successful like Corvette

Well now the N/A V10 Viper will become a "base" Viper

[rocket403]

Camaro does get some engines that come from the Vette but not near the HP of the Vette

ZL1 580hp vs ZR1 638hp

I think that this will continue to be the case, GM so far indicates that the Camaro will not be competing against the Hellcat.

The new Vette engine 650hp against the 770hp potential SC Viper, I think that if the Viper does get this SC engine it will take the Vette.

[Loading.....]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

125mph is impressive for a $60,000 car. It is even more impressive for a $55,000 car.

GT500
Car&Driver: 0-60, 3.5sec; 1/4mile 11.8 @ 125mph; 3891lbs
MotorTrend: 0-60, 3.8sec; 1/4mile 11.6 @ 125.7mph; 3871lbs
Motorweek: 0-60, 3.5sec, 1/4mile 11.7 @ 126.0mph
Edmunds: 0-60, 3.9sec, 1/4mile 12.1 @ 120.6mph; 3870lbs
Road&Track: 0-60, 3.5sec, 1/4mile 11.7 @ 128.1mph

Everybody keeps forgetting that the 2013 - 2014 GT500, on average, traps the same or higher MPH than the Hellcat with less horsepower. Once again, not knocking the Hellcat, just calling a spades a spades. The reason for the high horsepower number (707) is to compensate for the hefty weight the Hellcat has to lug around.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Yes, and if the GT500 could dead hook with a trap speed of 125 it would produce a roughly 10.9 ET in a 3900lb car for $5,000 less than what Dodge is charging for the Autocat. I'm struggling to see how the Hellokitty offers anything more than what has already been done? The GT500 manual appears every bit as fast as the Hellokitty with magical 8-speed automatic. The ZL1 will likely (track tests TBD) be faster around anything with a turn. But the Dodge is more roomy!!! so there's that.

If the GT500 was offered with a automatic and IRS the Hellcat would have no appeal.

If the next Gen SVT Mustang (be it a GT350/500/Mach 1 etc) has an auto it will also be a threat to the Hellcat market segment.

[SpeedIsLife]

Alot of people just do not want a manual out of personal preference

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Camaro does get some engines that come from the Vette but not near the HP of the Vette

ZL1 580hp vs ZR1 638hp

I think that this will continue to be the case, GM so far indicates that the Camaro will not be competing against the Hellcat.

The new Vette engine 650hp against the 770hp potential SC Viper, I think that if the Viper does get this SC engine it will take the Vette.

Another way to look at it...

C6 Z06 505 HP vs G5 ZL1 580 HP
C7 Z06 650 HP vs G6 ZL1 ....

There are other shoes yet to drop (ie ZR1). Chevy built three world class versions of the G5 in the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 so I'm confident in the future

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Camaro does get some engines that come from the Vette but not near the HP of the Vette

ZL1 580hp vs ZR1 638hp

The ZL1 and ZR1 have different engines. LSA & LS9 respectively.

Now the C6 Vette and Camaro SS (manual) both got the LS3, but the Camaro was down a couple horsepower. The Z/28 got the Z06 LS7 and they both have the same horsepower.

C6 Base - LS3 = Camaro SS - LS3
C6 Z06 - LS7 = Camaro Z/28 - LS7
C6 ZR1 - LS9 =/= Camaro ZL1 - LSA

Technically the C6 and 5th Gen. Camaro share more engines than not.

My thought is that the ZL1 and probably Third Gen. CTS-V are going to get the LT4 but power will fall somewhere between 600 - 640.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Camaro does get some engines that come from the Vette but not near the HP of the Vette

Camaro LS3 - 426hp
Corvette LS3 - 430hp
Camaro LS7 - 505hp
Corvette LS7 - 505hp
Cadillac LSA - 556hp
Camaro LSA - 580hp
Corvette ZR1 - 638hp


The LS9 was the only engine that did not find its way into the Camaro before development was stopped. The LS9 was too costly for the ZL1 price point anyway. The engineers wanted to invest in other parts of the car to create a well-rounded performance package. Different from Dodge/Ford dumping 90% of the additional development cost between the front struts. Had they known the Z/28 would get the green-light back in 2010, we may have seen the LS9 in the ZL1.

Originally Posted by rocket403

I think that this will continue to be the case, GM so far indicates that the Camaro will not be competing against the Hellcat.

You have insider information about GM to share? Both the Mustang and Camaro are entering entirely new platforms. It took Dodge 3 years to come up with competition for the GT500/ZL1 and even then, looks lackluster. Unless you know something we don't, it is entirely to early to determine whether or not FoMoCo/GM respond.

Originally Posted by rocket403

The new Vette engine 650hp against the 770hp potential SC Viper, I think that if the Viper does get this SC engine it will take the Vette.

Let's stick with what we know. The 2015 ZO6 will debut with 650hp/650ft-lb and the 2015 Viper will sport an upgraded 645hp/600ft-lbs. Allpar can speculate all they want. How many years did they speculate on the 5-speed slushbox replacement for the V8 cars before it happened? Four?

[URBAN LEGEND]

This thread is incredible.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by rocket403

1) Camaro does get some engines that come from the Vette but not near the HP of the Vette

2) ZL1 580hp vs ZR1 638hp

3) I think that this will continue to be the case, GM so far indicates that the Camaro will not be competing against the Hellcat.

4) The new Vette engine 650hp against the 770hp potential SC Viper, I think that if the Viper does get this SC engine it will take the Vette.

Welcome back, rocket403. We missed you.

1) LS3: 430 vs. 426 - the explanation being about 12" more exhaust and different headers (packaging) on the Camaro. Remember, Net hp is WITH accessories and exhaust connected.

2) LSA vs. LS9 - for complete explanation, please consider reading here: http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines.html

3) Gen-5 - correct. But, my friend, Gen-6 (LT-capable) is only about 12 short months away, or so. I can see that news gets you EXCITED!

4) FACT vs. conjecture. Please revisit this site when the 770 hp Viper is in the hands of paying customers.

Thanks.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

If the next Gen SVT Mustang (be it a GT350/500/Mach 1 etc) has an auto it will also be a threat to the Hellcat market segment.

The two mules (of Sister Sarah?) recently running at the 'Ring included funny-sounding engines (Italian, borrowed from Fiat?). One, for sure, had an AutoMagic Transgression.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

This thread is incredible.

Isn't it, though?!

And I want to personally thank you for your extensive and insightful additions, throughout. You are a major part of this thread's success.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

Isn't it, though?!

And I want to personally thank you for your extensive and insightful additions, throughout. You are a major part of this thread's success.

Haha.