New Chevelle instead of a 2016 Camaro?

[ssrs2lt]

great idea

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

First question is: why? What would you get with a Chevelle that wouldn't be accomplished better with a Camaro? Don't just say it would look different, because every car looks different. And you can't say it would look better because a) looks are generally subjective and b) we have no clue what either car would look like anyways. If its going to be larger, it would therefore be more expensive, heavier, and slower than an otherwise similar Camaro. Not exactly a selling point, IMO.

So again: why?

If you're replacing the Camaro with the Chevelle, it would have to out-sell it (or at least, profit x sales would need to be bigger), otherwise it would never have the slightest hope of happening. But given the challenges I mentioned above, what are the advantages it would have? More room in the back? So what. Its still going to be cramped, uncomfortable & awkward in the back by virtue of it being a 2 door. Are there a couple hundred thousand people out there who absolutely refuse to buy a Camaro but are more than willing to plunk down 40 grand on a Chevelle? I'm don't believe so.



The best way I can see of getting a larger RWD coupe would be to revive the Monte Carlo. That doesn't eliminate all the issues associated with the Chevelle, but it at least opens up different avenues of approach which would help to distinguish it from the Camaros it would be sold along side. First would be to remain faithful to its 'personal luxury coupe' niche. Give it all the little niceties that people complained that they couldn't get with the Camaro. That also gives GM the excuse to charge a larger premium for it.

Secondly, I think it would be easier to rework a Monte Carlo as a Buick (say Riviera or Grand National). Since the name plate has been around in various forms over the last ~40 years, it is less clearly defined as to how it should look. But with Chevelle, it must look like the cars from the late 60s/early 70s otherwise most of the people who might have bought one would be up in arms (see 2004 GTO) and the car declared a failure.

Now, in my opinion its a stonger case for a new Monte ... but its still pretty weak overall. Fact is, there just isn't much of a market for coupes or performance. Most of what there is is taken up by the Camaro & Mustang. With either the Chevelle or Monte Carlo, even if they were sold along side the Camaro, most of their sales would come from the Camaro. Anything thats left would be just a small incremental gain & probably not worth the billion dollar investment required to make it a reality.


You do understand that the Malibu outsells the Camaro by around 2.5 : 1, right? And exiting the midsize family sedan market would be insane. Besides, killing the Malibu in favour of the Chevelle would severely mess with GM's CAFE scores.

All good points, but sometimes throwing out the rule book is what you need to do. Why build a 707hp family car? Because you can. Dodge themselves have stated that there is no business model for the Hellcat Charger other than to get focus on the brand. I think a car like a Chevelle would be good for keeping the eye on GM. I certainly wouldn't replace the Camaro with it though. I would love to have another two door option. I know it will never happen because if the things you state too.

[Bhobbs]

The one part I agree with DGthe3 about is the lack of engines and it is only going to be worse for this generation small block. At least the III and IV gens had different displacements. It seems like the gen V will only be LT1 and LT4.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by motorhead

All good points, but sometimes throwing out the rule book is what you need to do. Why build a 707hp family car? Because you can. Dodge themselves have stated that there is no business model for the Hellcat Charger other than to get focus on the brand. I think a car like a Chevelle would be good for keeping the eye on GM. I certainly wouldn't replace the Camaro with it though. I would love to have another two door option. I know it will never happen because if the things you state too.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. You would have to commit at least 10x the capital and engineering to do an all new Chevelle compared to a heavily modified engine.

Plus your only large coupe architecture is about to die off with the Gen5 Camaro. You would be left with an Alpha coupe....................which is what the Gen6 Camaro is supposed to be.

Now think ahead. Think of a low volume retro Chevelle everyone is going, "I'd buy that". Well that car wouldn't be a $25,000 Chevelle. It would likely be a $40,000 Chevelle and up from there.

GM has a coupe. Two actually. Coupes sell like crap. They sell like hatchbacks and station wagons. So to get a reasonably priced Chevelle you'd need a "base" coupe in the mid 20s. Now how many V6 Camaros would you NOT sell if there was a competing V6 model for the same price in the Chevy showroom? Any guesses? Won't take many to destroy the Camaro business case.

You guys are assuming a Chevelle would be all plus business. It wouldn't be. And to just plop another coupe in the same showroom would be disaster with a capital D.

Yes, it is that simple.

[Q'smuscle]

[QUOTE=DGthe3;7892829]First question is: why? What would you get with a Chevelle that wouldn't be accomplished better with a Camaro? Don't just say it would look different, because every car looks different. And you can't say it would look better because a) looks are generally subjective and b) we have no clue what either car would look like anyways. If its going to be larger, it would therefore be more expensive, heavier, and slower than an otherwise similar Camaro. Not exactly a selling point, IMO.

So again: why?

If you're replacing the Camaro with the Chevelle, it would have to out-sell it (or at least, profit x sales would need to be bigger), otherwise it would never have the slightest hope of happening. But given the challenges I mentioned above, what are the advantages it would have? More room in the back? So what. Its still going to be cramped, uncomfortable & awkward in the back by virtue of it being a 2 door. Are there a couple hundred thousand people out there who absolutely refuse to buy a Camaro but are more than willing to plunk down 40 grand on a Chevelle? I'm don't believe so.


The best way I can see of getting a larger RWD coupe would be to revive the Monte Carlo. That doesn't eliminate all the issues associated with the Chevelle, but it at least opens up different avenues of approach which would help to distinguish it from the Camaros it would be sold along side. First would be to remain faithful to its 'personal luxury coupe' niche. Give it all the little niceties that people complained that they couldn't get with the Camaro. That also gives GM the excuse to charge a larger premium for it.

Secondly, I think it would be easier to rework a Monte Carlo as a Buick (say Riviera or Grand National). Since the name plate has been around in various forms over the last ~40 years, it is less clearly defined as to how it should look. But with Chevelle, it must look like the cars from the late 60s/early 70s otherwise most of the people who might have bought one would be up in arms (see 2004 GTO) and the car declared a failure.

Now, in my opinion its a stonger case for a new Monte ... but its still pretty weak overall. Fact is, there just isn't much of a market for coupes or performance. Most of what there is is taken up by the Camaro & Mustang. With either the Chevelle or Monte Carlo, even if they were sold along side the Camaro, most of their sales would come from the Camaro. Anything thats left would be just a small incremental gain & probably not worth the billion dollar investment required to make it a reality.


You do understand that the Malibu outsells the Camaro by around 2.5 : 1, right? And exiting the midsize family sedan market would be insane. Besides, killing the Malibu in favour of the Chevelle would severely mess with GM's CAFE scores.[/QUOTE

Why? Because A lot ppl like options from the same brand most of the time! And most would love to relive and bring back the muscle car's that actually went against the Challenger! Bring back passion, emotion, and memories that's why GM was successful with these 5th Gens! Most wanted a 60's Camaro , firebird, or chevelle from 70's /60's. The Camaro is changing it's design with the 6th Gen so we can't compare anything to the 5TH Gen success . Which is why a Chevelle would be right for the picking because a lot of Camaro owners are looking for a new in your face car to replace or to have beside their 5Th Gen or other Camaro! A Monte Carlo wouldn't cause much like a chevelle. Plus GM had their try at it and didn't do the Monte Carlos right! look at the pic that I posted of how everyone would basically want a chevelle to look in today's world!

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by Diode Dynamics

I wish they would bring back a Retro-pro touring-ish 1970 Chevelle

I'd be all over that lol

Nick C.

Originally Posted by motorhead

All good points, but sometimes throwing out the rule book is what you need to do. Why build a 707hp family car? Because you can. Dodge themselves have stated that there is no business model for the Hellcat Charger other than to get focus on the brand. I think a car like a Chevelle would be good for keeping the eye on GM. I certainly wouldn't replace the Camaro with it though. I would love to have another two door option. I know it will never happen because if the things you state too.

Agree!

[FenwickHockey65]

This thread is a perfect example of the disconnect between enthusiasts and reality...

[Bhobbs]

We can't be that far off from reality if GM thought there was enough sales to bring the SS over.

[Drumminxx]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

We can't be that far off from reality if GM thought there was enough sales to bring the SS over.

I was just looking at ss sales and they look bad.it looks too much like a malibu or impala and doesn't appeal to that market. Drop the SS and replace it with the chevelle...oh yea and give it 700+ hp ...lol...I think it would do good.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

We can't be that far off from reality if GM thought there was enough sales to bring the SS over.

Primarily to prop up Holden until Australian manufacturing ends. If you think Holden manufacturing is in bad shape right now, it'd be even worse without the small export programs they have.

Originally Posted by Drumminxx

I was just looking at ss sales and they look bad.it looks too much like a malibu or impala and doesn't appeal to that market. Drop the SS and replace it with the chevelle...oh yea and give it 700+ hp ...lol...I think it would do good.

That would do even worse than SS.

[rocket403]

Originally Posted by Drumminxx

I was just looking at ss sales and they look bad.it looks too much like a malibu or impala and doesn't appeal to that market. Drop the SS and replace it with the chevelle...oh yea and give it 700+ hp ...lol...I think it would do good.

That's the issue that I have with the SS it just looks like every other 4 door front drive that GM makes nothing to set it apart, I know it is RWD but do something to make it look different.

Dodge did that with the Charger it has it's own look, I do like the interior and body lines, the only thing that bugs me is the grill. The updated front is probably the reason that it is getting the 204MPH though more aerodynamic than the Challenger.

[Drumminxx]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

That would do even worse than SS.

Disagree. The chevelle wouldn't look like most other cars like the SS does. classic car styling has been successful for many makes and models. the camaro is a good example.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Drumminxx

Disagree. The chevelle wouldn't look like most other cars like the SS does. classic car styling has been successful for many makes and models. the camaro is a good example.

Design only goes so far. A 700 HP full size performance coupe would do absolutely horrible in today's market. It's a massive niche car that wouldn't sell in sufficient enough numbers to support the business case, not to mention it wouldn't do any favors for GM's CAFE numbers. And before anyone goes bringing up the Hellcat-powered cars, keep in mind they have rental fleet special V6 Chargers and Challengers that sell at much higher volumes that offset the SRTs.

Some of you need to keep in mind a sobering fact: A lot of Americans really do not care about cars anymore. You're describing enthusiast wet dreams and expecting them to sell tens of thousands of units when in reality, the market for these high performance vehicles is very limited. Chevrolet's performance lineup is already very well-rounded with Camaro, SS, and Corvette.

What you're describing would honestly make better sense as a Cadillac than a reborn Chevelle.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by Drumminxx

Disagree. The chevelle wouldn't look like most other cars like the SS does. classic car styling has been successful for many makes and models. the camaro is a good example.

Yup! The Camaro, Challenger, and mustang ! Heck, even the 4 door charger now has old school classic styling!

Originally Posted by rocket403

That's the issue that I have with the SS it just looks like every other 4 door front drive that GM makes nothing to set it apart, I know it is RWD but do something to make it look different.

Dodge did that with the Charger it has it's own look, I do like the interior and body lines, the only thing that bugs me is the grill. The updated front is probably the reason that it is getting the 204MPH though more aerodynamic than the Challenger.

Agree!

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

We can't be that far off from reality if GM thought there was enough sales to bring the SS over.

Word !

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Primarily to prop up Holden until Australian manufacturing ends. If you think Holden manufacturing
is in bad shape right now, it'd be even worse without the small export programs they have.



That would do even worse than SS.

LOL.... How would a car that has no following and no styling do better than a car with all of that plus more!